ReplyThe model line SEER rating, is an "up to" rating. often the 5 tons units don't get close to that SEER on the higher "up to" lines.
New Guest
16 Seer Purchase Versus AHRI rating
Contract was for a Trane 16 seer 5 ton condenser w/coil using
1-4TTX606E1000A Trane Condenser
1-4TXCD061BC3HCA Trane Coil
1-TCONT 602 Digital Stat
Sales people showed me three quotes. A 12, a 15, and a 16 seer
All with different prices. We selected the 16 seer and the
U.S. Government "EnergyGuide" said it was a 16.00 seer unit
However
the AHRI Certificate of Product Ratings says the
Cooling Capacity is 54500
EER Rating is 11.50
and the SEER RATING IS 15.00
Was I taken to the cleaners?????
Thanks for any info you can give me.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
The model line SEER rating, is an "up to" rating. often the 5 tons units don't get close to that SEER on the higher "up to" lines.
Professional Member*
A better solution is reducing your heat gain to where you don't need such a big A/C unit. How many sq ft are you cooling and what city?
Professional Member*
It also depends on the furnace of air handler fan. The varible speed fans matched up with this equipment will have a higher SEER th
an a standard fan motor matchup. Did you get a new furnace or was an existing furnace used? Ask for the "AHRI Certified Reference Number"
Use this site if you have the complete numbers including the furnace model number.
http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahridir...ultSearch.aspx
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
Mark Twain
NEVER STOP LEARNING.
Professional Member*
Another proof of Trane's deceitfulness in advertising. Most every other mfg uses the "down to" method which I think is better, less confusing to the HO & not quite as deceitful.Originally Posted by beenthere
At any rate, it's not the dealer's fault, he's not the one taking you to the "cleaners". Like beenthere said, for whatever reason mfg's have a harder time achieving the higher efficiencies at the 5ton mark.
WHY?
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
York, Carrier, Lennox, Rheem, Goodman all use the up to method on the higher model lines. What brand do you use that advertises that their 5 ton top of the model lines don't get X efficiency.
Professional Member*
what?? an absolutely clueless shot in the dark statement. every piece of equipment has an up to rating. I mean who the hell would put SEER as low as 13.5??
It's hard to stop a Trane. but I have made one helluva living keeping them going.
Global Moderator
Many do it. 10 years ago Lennox came out with the Elite 11. Sure it got 11, with a more expensive TXV coil that I'd bet was rarely used. All of the Lennox A/Cs have the "approximate" SEER in the model #. Does every Goodman DSXC18 combo get 18? No, the best the 5 ton can get with a gas furnace is 16. Can't call out Trane on this issue.
Professional Member*
I've seen Carrier model #s & they seem to pretty right on. Seen the Trane XL20i & none of those models get 20SEER. The Lennoxes start out w/a 10 or 12 in their model #s & that's pretty much what they are. Goodmans/Amanas? Their GSX/ASX13's are just that: 13SEERs. They have 14, 16 & 18 models as well. Funny they don't have a 15, but that's because their 14's will get that w/either the AEPF or ASPF model air handlers.
WHY?
Professional Member*
C'mon guys. It's called marketing and any manufacturer in the game is labeling a "class" of units according to the maximum SEER rating they can get on any combination of one system. I think the "up to" is the more common fine print from all manufacturer's. And as beenthere said, when it's a 5.0-ton system, getting the 'bragged about' efficiency is usually non-existent. But I've installed 13-SEER labelled units that have obtained 14.5-SEER on the AHRI ratings by using a air handler with an ECM motor. Sure, it adds to the price of the job a few hundred bucks but overall, they're paying for a 13-SEER and getting a pretty good bang for their bucks.
I'm not sure where full discloser leaves dealer in a situation if he specifies '16 SEER' and delivers less. One would think that if he's selling based on efficiency, he's want to let the customer know that what the manufacturer claims as a maximum efficiency is no more accurate than the MPG ratings the DOE allows automobile manufacturers to use on new cars. There are disclaimers, "No guarantees are made as to the performance of this product. Your actual efficiency may vary under installed conditions." They do it with autos and they do it with stocks and bonds. Why should AC/HP be any different?
Professional Member*
OK,
SEER tells you how Efficient your system is when it it 82 outside, no RH, and you bring the indoor temp down to 80.
SEER is a totally bogus rating created to lie to our customers. We are lying every time it is used to sell energy savings or compare units. So all we are talking about here, is not weather or not we are all lying. We are. This discussion in only about who is the biggest lier.
Remember, AHRI went to Federal Court trying to stop the release of EER ratings. If they hadn't lost you still would not see them today. The industry biggest lie is HSPF, and AHRI still won't release the 17 degree COP data to properly model a HP. Your industry wants you to lie. We all have our pants on fire.
But lying is how our industry sells AC units.
Oh well,
ACBD
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Carrier higher end models in the 5 ton size don't get the "up to" SEER. Lennox is the same way.
Regular Guest
Look at this Trane systems, they are all 5 ton that will meet 16 seer.
A\C: model # 4TTX5061E1000a
Coil: model # 4TXCD063BC3A
Furnace: model # TUD2C100B9V5
A/C model # 4TTR5061E1000A
Coil: model # 4TXCD063BC3A
Furnace: model # TUD2C100B9V5
1st one is XL15i complete system
2nd is XR15 complete system (which is the same as XL16i with 1 compressor 2 stages.
Both are great systems when installed properly that meet the tax credit/seer ratings you are looking for. There are a few others but this are the ones we install the most of.
Global Moderator
The 16i isn't the best unit for capacity and efficiency. Often, the unloading scroll isn't the greatest either but looks like in the XR15 5 ton, it is much better.
Another thread asked about the 16i vs a Rheem RPRL. I pointed out that the RPQL single stage blew away the 2 stage in everything but SEER. I looked at the XR15 and XL15i heat pumps, they weren't as impressive as the Rheem. Key is finding the best match.
Of course, we don't know what furnace the OP is getting. Hopefully it isn't using an existing one! Then he'd be lots lower in every category.
Professional Member*
spot on
It's hard to stop a Trane. but I have made one helluva living keeping them going.
Regular Guest
I agree with you about 16i with 1 compressor that unloads as it is not the best. On that same note if it is sized properly and installed right they do a good job. If I had to choose as a average customer between the XL 15, XR 15 and XL 16 systems. I would go with the XR 15 as these is what I installed in my home. The seer/EER numbers are in favor of the XR 15 as they are more then likly using the same indoor coil furnace & or air handler and hit the same numbers if bot better.
Know the XL line is a better looking system, quieter, and has 2 more years compressor warranty. So really it all boils down to how much a person wants to pay. It like a lexus verus a Toyota! Same motor one is just dressed up and had a few more balls & whistles on it. Again my proper sized and installed XR 15 system works great and I am happy with my choose. Nothing against XL15i system as we sale alot of this systems to due to special promotions offered by Trane.
Global Moderator
My cousin got a bid from a contractor on his new house. Bid was for a 16i. It got 16 SEER. The XR13 got 14 SEER and was $4digits less. The 16i would be in the scrapyard long before he recovered that 4 digits with today's or even tomorrow's electric rates. Even the XR15 for 1 more SEER point wouldn't make sense for him. Sometimes, basic is best. For Detroit, the XV95 is the way to go for him just like the XV80 is the way to go in a mild climate.
Now, hopefully the variable speed scroll will start popping up more places!
Professional Member*
What is a down to method?
