Jace as a AHU conroller

[b-man]

Thanks in advance for any opinions. Still new to the AX product.
Are many people using a Jace with I/O as a stand alone AHU controller.
Have a job oprtunity that requires custom AHU's with a lot of downstream zone control (not VAV). Site would have numerous similar setups, with Jace's
networked together.
Thanks again
b-man

[dapper]

Wow! That sounds like an expensive AHU controller. Why would you want to use a Jace as a stand-alone controller when there will be several other Jaces on the same project? Do you have access to any other control lines?

[DaveCR]

...Are many people using a Jace with I/O as a stand alone AHU controller...
b-man

I would venture to say "No." Not that it isn't technically possible, but, as dapper states, pretty expensive.

[amigo]

b-man is probably talking about a jace2, and with expansion i/o, price per point is pretty unbeatable. I think if he has a high number of zones, it makes sense.

[mechdorn]

I've seen it done. Two items really popped out. The wire sheet was incredibly ugly, and no local display. I priced a similar situation, the hardware point cost was nearly identical as opposed to a standard field controller with expansion modules. The programming time will be high, every little step is custom.

[beer30]

Wow! That sounds like an expensive AHU controller. Why would you want to use a Jace as a stand-alone controller when there will be several other Jaces on the same project? Do you have access to any other control lines?

Which standalone controller can provide custom programming, web interface with graphics, e-mail alarms, collect and store trend data, and do it cheaper than a Jace 2 with a 16 I/O?

[beer30]

I've seen it done. Two items really popped out. The wire sheet was incredibly ugly, and no local display. I priced a similar situation, the hardware point cost was nearly identical as opposed to a standard field controller with expansion modules. The programming time will be high, every little step is custom.

Wire sheets are only as ugly or pretty as the programmer. The customer should never see them anyway. Use the kitPxHvac pallatte. And for a couple hundred bucks, you can connect a laptop, so who needs a local display.

[dapper]

Sure, if you had one as a stand-alone on a project.

Why, have multiple Jaces when you only need one Jace 6 to handle the web interface, graphics, alarms and trends. I just dont see the advantage to installing a Jace on every piece of equipment in the house.

[shylock]

Just FYI Tridium Europe sells Vykon HVAC system: a Jace, which controls AHUs, cooling/heating plants etc through inexpensive Modbus IO. All programming and configuration is done with wizards (no real programming) VERY quick and simply.

[paulir]

I've seen it done. Two items really popped out. The wire sheet was incredibly ugly, and no local display. I priced a similar situation, the hardware point cost was nearly identical as opposed to a standard field controller with expansion modules. The programming time will be high, every little step is custom.

I use them all the time for retro fits, just replaced (11) 8x8 Staefa with 4 Jace20s (Lynxspring's PC-1000). I Also use them for boiler and chiller plants. NO issues what so ever. If you have tons of logic then make sure you use a 60.
I have analyzed price per point and I am very competitive

[paulir]

I've seen it done. Two items really popped out. The wire sheet was incredibly ugly, and no local display. I priced a similar situation, the hardware point cost was nearly identical as opposed to a standard field controller with expansion modules. The programming time will be high, every little step is custom.

1-Ugly wire sheet is result of sloppy programming.
2-I can program faster in a Jace than any other environment, except basic. Utilizing saved .bogs, cut paste, custom program objects, and search and replace. The secret to ANY programming is BUILD LIBRARY'S of code or objects, re-use,re-use, re-use.
3-Don't know where u buy your Jaces but my price per point smokes!
4-I have a Jace display I use all the time! Remove cover, add option card, plug in display, snap on new LCD cover presto done! (Well add the lcd extensions first)

[paulir]

Just FYI Tridium Europe sells Vykon HVAC system: a Jace, which controls AHUs, cooling/heating plants etc through inexpensive Modbus IO. All programming and configuration is done with wizards (no real programming) VERY quick and simply.

Are you referring to the white Jaces? I saw a cut sheet. Looked interesting. Are they going to market those in US also... Ouchh if they do.

[b-man]

Thanks for all the input!
The zones could add up to 75-100 points (I/O) plus the points of the AHU.
Customer must have access to the programming tool. This solution would not only allow them access to programming of the AHU/zones, but be able to use the same software platform for graphics, trending and alarming.
Each AHU must be standalone controller, in case of a crash, no other AHUs will go down, "Critical Areas".
Cost is always an issue, but in this case reliability and expandability are the main issue.
b-man

[shylock]

Are you referring to the white Jaces? I saw a cut sheet. Looked interesting. Are they going to market those in US also... Ouchh if they do.

Not sure what you mean. I'm referring to this: Vykon HVAC. It is Jace2 and 6 (I believe they are available in US) with special jar modules.

[ControlsInMT]

So how are you communicating between the JACEs? LON, MODBUS, or through the LAN? Just curious. Thanks.

[gnomethang]

I have seen it done twice (by the same company) with R2 Jace with onboard IO and also Honeywell LON IO in the larger panels. Lon was also used for the VAVs and also Modbus for Metering. Small fixed application LON IO for tenants metering and miscellaneous monitoring/control.
It worked well and I assume is cost effective otherwise they would not have used this approach.

[Slowboy_2009]

I have done it a few time. No problem.

You could also consider the honeywell Spyder. Smaller controllers, availables with BACnet or Lonwork network and they are program with Workbench. They are Niagara AX base controller.

Using Spyder ctrl's network to a WEB-201 (Jace-2) would cut your price even more, with the same benefit of using only Jace-2.

[paulir]

So how are you communicating between the JACEs? LON, MODBUS, or through the LAN? Just curious. Thanks.

CAT6 LANs

[GregF]

Wire sheets are only as ugly or pretty as the programmer. The customer should never see them anyway. Use the kitPxHvac pallatte. And for a couple hundred bucks, you can connect a laptop, so who needs a local display.

I agree and if you have a java programmer around you can do it in baja. I have developed a generic ahu block for 90 % of the ahu's we do. I use th jace for this all the time. I use cat 6 or lon depending on whats going on.
Remember that if you are going to use I/O, it needs to be on the jace when its first set up and your good to go.
If you write a generic ahu program (java or block) you can use it over and over again. Set up time becomes short, hours drop and more money made.

Greg

[digo]

Using Spyder ctrl's network to a WEB-201 (Jace-2) would cut your price even more, with the same benefit of using only Jace-2.

I wouldn't plan on using a WEB-201 if you need access to the programming tool after installation. See the HW Spyder compatibility matrix, I don't think HW supports the tool on a 201.

It could be done if you bring them in as dynamic devices, but you'd lose the ability to replace a controller remotely.