Communicating to a Trane MP581 controller through LON

[apprentice3]

I have a customer that contacted me today regarding a Trane MP581 controller. The customer said the controls contractor on the job doesn't want to connect to the controller via Trane Tracer comm 5, but LON instead. I thought Tracer Comm 5 was pretty much the same as LON? I believe they are using a Tridium JACE as the front end, and they want to connect these controllers to there LON network. They would like us to "map" the points. I really don't know where they want us to map the points to, but I was wondering what is all entaled in this job? The MP581 controllers have already been completely programmed.... So can I just connect the LON network cable to the controllers, and discover all of the points? Or do I need to configure the controllers differently to communicate on a True LON network?

Thanks for any information you can provide me on this.

[apprentice3]

I have a customer that contacted me today regarding a Trane MP581 controller. The customer said the controls contractor on the job doesn't want to connect to the controller via Trane Tracer comm 5, but LON instead. I thought Tracer Comm 5 was pretty much the same as LON? I believe they are using a Tridium JACE as the front end, and they want to connect these controllers to there LON network. They would like us to "map" the points. I really don't know where they want us to map the points to, but I was wondering what is all entaled in this job? The MP581 controllers have already been completely programmed.... So can I just connect the LON network cable to the controllers, and discover all of the points? Or do I need to configure the controllers differently to communicate on a True LON network?

Thanks for any information you can provide me on this.

Also what is involved in mapping the available points to NVOs and NVIs?

[dapper]

'Trane Tracer comm 5' IS 'True Lon'. You can connect the MP580s directly to the LON network. The issue that you will have is mapping the points. In order to do this you will need a copy of the programs.

[amigo]

and Rover tool of course to make changes or add more nv points.

[apprentice3]

'Trane Tracer comm 5' IS 'True Lon'. You can connect the MP580s directly to the LON network. The issue that you will have is mapping the points. In order to do this you will need a copy of the programs.

I have Trane Rover Comm 5. The MP581s on these units have already been programmed by a manufacturer called Innovent. I am not sure if they have somehow locked up the program or not, but could I just connect with Rover, pull the program/back it up, and map the points? If so how hard is it to map all of the points? Does Trane have a manual on exactly how to do this? All I have done with NVs is Comm 5 bindings. Like for instance a OAT NVO on a MP503, I have binded to the NVI on a MP581. Does the mapping take place somewhere around the binding portion in Rover?

Thanks for all of the help so far.

[dapper]

Mapping the points in not a real big deal. The problem is when you discover them the assigned pt names will not be brought in. I'm not sure what they will look like but for instance they will come in like AnalogInput1, AnalogInput2 or BinaryInput1, BinaryOutput1 etc. The same holds true for the variables and constants. You will need program so you can identify all of the points as they are used in the program.

[dboone]

The points have to be mapped in TGP, which is done using the Rover service tool. Every desired point has to be linked to a network variable (snvt type). This is not done typically in basic programming as Trane front ends can see the points without additional mapping. Third party integrations require this additional step.

[apprentice3]

The points have to be mapped in TGP, which is done using the Rover service tool. Every desired point has to be linked to a network variable (snvt type). This is not done typically in basic programming as Trane front ends can see the points without additional mapping. Third party integrations require this additional step.

So lets say I want to bring a supply fan status input out of the MP581 for viewing. I would have to find the TGP programming that has that binary input in it. Then drag a line in TGP off of it to the correct SNVT type/NVO?

Is there some sort of manual outlining this procedure?

Thanks for all of the information.

[amigo]

If I were you I would first see if you can get on that MP581 with your rover and see if the tgp is not password locked. Also if this a factory/oem programmed MP, ask yourself if you will be voiding the warranty if you touch it.
my 2cents.

[shovelhead]

So lets say I want to bring a supply fan status input out of the MP581 for viewing. I would have to find the TGP programming that has that binary input in it. Then drag a line in TGP off of it to the correct SNVT type/NVO?

Is there some sort of manual outlining this procedure?

Thanks for all of the information.

Yes that's correct. Just add the approiate snvt and connect them, recompile and upload the program. What platform are you integrating to?

[acddc]

So lets say I want to bring a supply fan status input out of the MP581 for viewing. I would have to find the TGP programming that has that binary input in it. Then drag a line in TGP off of it to the correct SNVT type/NVO?

Is there some sort of manual outlining this procedure?

Thanks for all of the information.

I just made this mapping table as an example for you to see what it will look like....

[apprentice3]

If I were you I would first see if you can get on that MP581 with your rover and see if the tgp is not password locked. Also if this a factory/oem programmed MP, ask yourself if you will be voiding the warranty if you touch it.
my 2cents.

Thanks amigo... I was thinking this same thing. I was going to call the factory tomorrow, and ask them if it was going to void the warranty.

Thanks for your input

[apprentice3]

I just made this mapping table as an example for you to see what it will look like....

Thanks a lot. This picture really helps out.

[irvedwmac]

Hi Guys (Yeah. Like how Magnum p.i. says it...),

I got 4 MP581s networked to a BCU (64002334?) and an old Windows 98 laptop is connected to the BCU's ethernet port.

How should I connect Tridium to this?

Would it be possible to put the BCU on the computer network and have Tridium to to the Trane controllers with LON over IP or something?

Could a JACE (Titan8000) coexist on the LON network with the BCU?

(I remember that the Command Displays for Honeywell's LCBS system didn't like to work with the JACEs and would go blank when a Niagara system would start talking with them. I thought that the XL15As or XL15Bs also had such a problem as well....)

Which Trane manuals should I find my answers in?

[irvedwmac]

Hi Guys (Yeah. Like how Magnum p.i. says it...),

I have to confess that I am not understanding this issue of bringing the LON network points into Tridium.

I thought that a person needed to come up with an LNML (LON Network Markup Language) file for the controllers.

Don't the Trane controllers have standard LNML files for them?

Or do they not have files for them, because their network variables are variable like with Honeywell Spyders?

The Honeywell LCBS controllers like the XL10, XL15C, and XL15A had LNML files for them, because their network variables were fixed regardless of programming, but with the Honeywell Spyders, very few network variables were fixed.

[bigguy158]

We usually just talk LON to them and remove the BCU. You do have to expose all the points using rover as shown in this thread.


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[Balibe]

We usually just talk LON to them and remove the BCU. You do have to expose all the points using rover as shown in this thread.


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+1

To expand ..... these controllers are field programmed and not a factory controller with default XIF file to create an LNML like a Trane Comm5 ZN511 or ZN521. None of the points are exposed to LON as the Trane BCU does not require this. You have to add the SNVT NVO/NVI's manually for each point you need to read/control in the control program with Rover Tracer Graphical Programming as BigGuy stated and shown in the previous posts this thread.

To note .... if you are looking to write points, there will be some modification to to the logic/program needed so the logic looks at the SNVT NVI instead of the BCU and/or display. This will depend on the existing logic/program as you can't map a BCU/display point in logic as an NVI. If there is a display on the MP581, I typically put a NVI switch into the logic writes to flip between display or NVI on the display. This way if the network is down, they can still have local control thru the display.

[irvedwmac]

Hi Guys (Yeah. Like how Magnum p.i. says it...),

What is the Comm 3 port on the BCU?

Will that be another LON network? Or could it be a BACnet network?

Where do I read up on what this is?

Thanks,
Ed Macall
Campbell Inc
216 645 5543

[roadgear16]

The Comm3 port is for Trane isolated Comm 3 devices, such as PCM, TCM, certain VAVs, RTUs. Its a proprietary comm link, and can't be used for BACnet. The only way to get BACnet into the BCU is BACnet/IP, and it's cumbersome. You have to create a "proxy point" for any point that you want to show or utilize.

The BCU (BMTX) only has one Lon network.

Here is a link I found to the hardware installation manual that lists the links and what they support.

[irvedwmac]

Hi Guys (Yeah. Like how Magnum p.i. says it...),

Well....

I've gotten into the MP580s with the Rover, modified their programs so that the point values in the programs are being delivered to the LON network points like how acddc showed above.

But when I go running downstairs to see if the JACE can see any values are showing up, they're all still showing up as 0, Nan, or Nul.

Yeah. I modified the program, compiled it, downloaded it to the MP580. The Rover has a screen that shows that the LON network points should be showing something, but the JACE is still just seeing 0, Nan, or Nul values.

What could be the matter?

Thanks
Ed Macall