Replyhttp://www.ahridirectory.org/ahridir...ultSearch.aspx
I would really check that claim out.......
Regular Member
Any comments? Which is more efficient, reliable, comfortable, less prone to malfunction or mfg. defects?
Reference my other threads regarding Manual J and sizing a replacement heat pump for my 1827sf Florida home with too many windows. LOL
jtrammel sent me to the Comfort Institute website and the Maytag/Broan dealer actually came out and did a whole house evaluation, including blower door test, flow hood evaluation, house and window measurements, insulation R-value, and load calc. He didn't ask or care about the size of my old system, and said it didn't matter because the load calc (which he did on his computer after he got the test results and took measurements) would determine the correct size for the replacement. He's working up a quote on two equipment options that he'll email me in a few days. He did leave the infiltration and duct leakage reports with me, but of course, he didn't leave me with a copy of the Manual J results (I guess so it can't be used by someone else). However, he discussed his Manual J results with me and compared them with the Manual J printout I received from the Lennox dealer. Both load calc's were very close and both recommended a single stage system capable of 42000 BTU.
When we got into the discussion of dual stage and/or multi-stage options, he explained very clearly the differences in cooling performance between dual stage and/or dual compressor units and the IQ Drive multi-stage compressor. At design conditions, both dual stage and dual compressor units max out at the rated tonnage, i.e., the most cooling you'll get from a 3 ton is 36000 BTU. With the multi-stage operation of the IQ Drive compressor, it maxes out at 118% of rated tonnage. That is, a 3 ton IQ Drive will provide up to 42480 BTU (3.5 ton)
Based on Manual J load calculation he recommends either the 3 ton 21 SEER Broan FT4BI iQ Drive, or the 4 ton 16 SEER Broan FT4BF.
The best part is that Broan is an RE Michel brand and this dealer can get the equipment through RE Michel for me practically wholesale using my son's employee discount (he manages the Orlando RE Michel). I'm hoping this brings the overall cost into my price range, but we'll see.
What do you all think?
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http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahridir...ultSearch.aspx
I would really check that claim out.......
Always here
Professional Member*
Broan is a nordyne product , the install of the iq drive unit is very important to acheive operation .it does sound like they are addressing your sizing concerns properly .make sure you get a 10 year part and labor warranty on the unit and go with it
Global Moderator
The 3 ton Broan rates at 21.00 SEER, 13 EER and 9.60 HSPF. Cooling capacity is 35,000 so I don't know why a 3 ton would work for the IQ drive but you need a 4 ton for the BF which is rated at 36,000 BTU.
The XL20i 3 ton with TAM8 is 18.50 SEER, 13 EER and 9.50 HSPF.
Hard to beat a system with son's discount though. The Broan Quality Pledge replaces the whole outdoor unit if you lose the comp in 10 years (registered.) We have a guy with an A-S 2 compressor heat pump that lost its small compressor twice now. A-S says takes 3 failures to get help besides a new compressor.
Regular Member
Didn't you mean 48,000 BTU for the 4 ton? If I went with the Trane XL20i, it would have to be the 4 ton, SEER 17.75.Originally Posted by BaldLoonie
The 10 year Quality Pledge does sound good.
Regular Member
I'm pretty sure the AHRi site reflects nominal BTU ratings only, not actual equipment performance data for various ODDB/IDWB and t-stat setpoints. I believe the latter data is proprietary and not readily accessible by laymen on the Broan website.
I could be wrong.... it's happened before. LOL
Professional Member*
They rate them at 100% of capacity for AHRI numbers so they can get higher efficienies but they actually have a capacity that as stated is 118% of rated so it does give a 3.5 ton cooling capacity on a 3 ton unit. The efficiency drops below the 21 SEER rated at any point above 100% so it would work in this homeowners case.
I have installed the Frigidair iQ drive heat pump with their modulating gas furnace and the quality of it is NOWHERE near Trane but its a great product overall. Its been on the market longer than the other variable drive options and we installed the frigidaire system 2 or 3 years ago and have not had a problem at all with it.
Check out my YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/skyheating1 We have customer testimonials, product reviews and more!
Like us on FACEBOOK if you like our advice here!
Regular Member
Thanks! Since I joined this forum, I've really appreciated your input... not only on my issues, but your comments throughout the AOP Residential group. And I think I've seen all your youtube videos on the Trane systems.
Can you tell me some of the important differences you've observed between the Hyperion a/h and the one supplied with the Broan equipment? I don't have the specs or p/n of the Broan, but I'm told they're not near as tall as the Hyperion, so I could accomodate a media filter with the Broan without modifying my a/h stand. Also, with the Hyperion, the wiring is squeezed between the front and side panels, which could cause chafing. Is it that way with the Broan? I'm not an engineer, but it sure looks like Trane forget to include wire grommets when they designed the cabinet, to me, anyway. And with the sheer size of the Hyperion, I'm afraid all the piping coming out the front of the a/h may get in the way of my utility room door opening up against the a/h stand. It currently opens a full 90 degrees and I would be upset if I had to squeeze through a 75 degree opening between the door and my laundry equipment (dryer). Any comments on the a/h setup?
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Regular Member
I believe this confirms what SkyHeating said in his comments. If there's more to it than that, I'm not seeing it in the link you provided.
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I have installed 2 iq drive systems. Both of them we have installed all new ductwork. Both customers are ecstatic about the system and utilities have dropped very significantly. The unit varies anywhere from 30%-118%. They rarely shut completely off and maintain very good humidity levels and comfort throughout the house. These types of units are where the hvac industry is heading. Soon all manufacturers will be rolling out a variable speed line.
Professional Member*
Is your home leaky? Ducts? Static pressure?
Regular Member
I'm attaching the Duct Leakage Flow Hood Report and the Infiltrometer Report.
Static pressure wasn't a number that was shared with me, unless it's in one of these reports.
Duct Leakage Report.pdf
Infiltrometer Report.pdf
Professional Member*
Those reports look pretty good compared to some I've seen. Duct system seems to be sealed pretty well, could be better but not bad. The house could use some improvement as well but overall not bad compared to lots of homes I have tested. I would definitely look into the iq drive, especially if you can get a discount through your son. It is a really good system. I was skeptical before I installed one. The two customers we have installed them for love them and the savings on utilities but the main thing they love is the comfort they have now throughout their home.
Regular Member
Thanks! I really appreciate your input on this. I had no idea Broan was an RE Michel product until this Comfort Institute member dealer (who I found with YOUR help) mentioned it after I told him some of the repairs that my son had done at "cost" in the first two years I owned the house because he was manager at RE Michel. He then brought up the employee discount and that he ALWAYS helps relatives of RE Michel employees get the discount because they are his major supplier. The things we don't know until someone helps us find out!!
Thanks again!
Professional Member*
Your duct system needs some serious sealing if you are going with a variable capacity system. Additional insulation would be a big benefit too.
I want to see the Phase 2 results. With a less than nearly perfectly sealed attic duct system, I expect their testing will show a shocking loss of efficiency from the variable capacity system.
They really do not do well at all with a leaking, or poorly insulated duct system in an attic.
Regular Member
Are you saying the reports I posted still indicate "serious" leakage? I just paid $xxx.xx to have the leaks sealed that were identified by Florida Power & Light Company's blower door test.
Also had R30 blown into the attic on top of the R8 that was there before. Or are you talking about wrapping the ducts with more insulation? How can you tell that's needed from the reports I posted?
Last edited by Florida Joy; 08-29-2012 at 02:14 AM. Reason: typo
Global Moderator
I did find a rating for the FT4BI-036 removing 51,000 BTU. But that's with sauna conditions inside and 60° outside! But then, a 13 SEER FT4BD-036 will pull out 45K under similar similar very steamy in and cool out.
The tech guide used the AHRI figure of 35,000 BTU as "nominal". But there are some cases where it will do better just like with any unit. Maybe a bit more than a single speed unit.
Professional Member*
You have about 6% total duct leakage which is not that bad. Most homes I have tested have anywhere from 20-60% leakage. If I remember correctly your furnace sits on a box with the return grill cut into that box on other side of wall. If that's the case it should be really simple to seal that box completely and reduce your return duct leakage to 0 instead of 17
Regular Member
I thought the 6% duct leakage was pretty damn good, considering I read where Florida building code allows 6% duct leakage for NEW CONSTRUCTION! Code allows 15% for retrofit.
You are correct! I could tell the guy that sealed the return box did a crappy job... ductboard inside out... but I've been assured that the contractors I'm dealing with will seal the return on a new install anyway. So I'm not worried about the current 17cfm leakage at the return.
Thank you for actually reading my reports! It's kind of annoying when people respond to my questions with comments and suggestions that have no relationship to the data that I posted. Grrrrrr.
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