Double float switches

[Tony3696]

Why would you parallel them? I would wire in series.

It works for roll-out switches + pressure switches, why make it more difficult?

That being said, I have seen these guys wired 2 ways. First is to interrupt 24V coming off the transformer killing the unit entirely. Second, just kills the 24V to the condenser. I have also seen both configurations in the instructions. Which do you prefer? I'm all for shutting the entire system down. Is their any benefit from just killing the condenser? I think it would just delay the homeowner from knowing that they have a problem.

[FrostyBeer]

It works for roll-out switches + pressure switches, why make it more difficult?

That being said, I have seen these guys wired 2 ways. First is to interrupt 24V coming off the transformer killing the unit entirely. Second, just kills the 24V to the condenser. I have also seen both configurations in the instructions. Which do you prefer? I'm all for shutting the entire system down. Is their any benefit from just killing the condenser? I think it would just delay the homeowner from knowing that they have a problem.

I agree. I like to kill power to the entire unit instead of just the condenser.

IMO there's no overkill to when it comes to water "safeties". Personally I think a proper condensate drain is the most important part of a system. Unfortunately the most overlooked too when it comes to installs and also service such as cleaning/ checking them.

[socotech]

I like to kill the power to the entire system too.

[WhoIsThat?]

Why would you parallel them? I would wire in series.

If you put them in series then only one of the two has to open for the pump to shut off and so this has a higher likelihood of shutting off when it is supposed to and a lower likelihood of turning on when it is supposed to, other things being equal (and they are probably not).

Probability theory gets pretty messy pretty fast even for just two switches in a series or parallel connection and for networks of paralleled and series'ed switches (for redundancy) it's a nightmare.
These circuits and the math that goes along with them are somewhere on the Web but of course I can't find it right now.

The one sump pump float switch I hacksawed open had a steel ball that falls across two contacts, so it seems to me that the likelihood of it opening is maybe much higher than the likelihood of it closing properly. For two of these, I'd put them in parallel so only one has to close for the pump to start.

[Mr Bill]

It would be nice if the mfg. installed a float switch in every primary pan. Float switches in primary lines only protect from the point there installed, if the primary pan stops up at the evap. the evap. condensate just runs over into the secondary, or plenum or on a vertical in a closet, on the floor below, then on to the carpet usually. I understand the secondary pan will protect were you can utilize a secondary pan, but why let it go this far? it's usually never a good thing when water comes out of a primary pan period.

[socotech]

I wasn't saying series float switch for condensate pump. I was refering to aux pan safety switch.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I use a float switch that screws into the secondary coil drain... IMO to stop the water BEFORE it overflows the coil pan is the first line of defense.

If the unit is anywhere other than on a concrete floor, it gets a pan float switch also.

The condensate pump ALWAYS goes IN the pan, and the switch in the condensate pump is always wired in.

If the install is an 80% furnace (most are in my area), then I break the Y... If it is a condensing furnace, then I break R.

And I always install a T in the coil drain... it gets flushed each spring.

So far, so good... in 10 years NO sheetrock repairs. NEVER have made a claim on my G/Liab policy... lets see if I get to continue this way.

[kw10925]

I want to say thank you to all other techs for your input.I am sorry didnt get back sooner had family issues.I see that two is not a waste. two wet swiches are inportant so you dont have a mess on your hands.That is cheaper than a new ceiling.
Thanks to all.

[WhoIsThat?]

So far, so good... in 10 years NO sheetrock repairs. NEVER have made a claim on my G/Liab policy... lets see if I get to continue this way.

If half or more of the contractors have claims made at or before the 10 year mark then you are doing better than average, possibly much better than average.
Is there any way to confirm this?
Insurance companies know how many water damage claims per year they get, but they may not want to tell you how many are due to HVAC problems and not due to broken pipes, floods, storms, etc..

[truck12]

Nothing said about freeze control?
Seen too many frozen verticals with switches everywhere, sure it'll shut off when enough water gets to a switch. But what do you think happens when that block of ice continues to melt? It's bigger than the primary pan so most of it misses and goes to the emergency pan. Two, three, ten switches won't stop that problem.
Two switches in the same pan? just plain stupid. If it's not stupid why not shoot for ten switches in the same pan.

[ga-hvac-tech]

If half or more of the contractors have claims made at or before the 10 year mark then you are doing better than average, possibly much better than average.
Is there any way to confirm this?
Insurance companies know how many water damage claims per year they get, but they may not want to tell you how many are due to HVAC problems and not due to broken pipes, floods, storms, etc..

I am sure the ins co's have endless records of many things... I was saying I have NO claims against my policy, and NO customers who have water damage from a system I installed.

[WhoIsThat?]

NO claims against my policy, and NO customers who have water damage from a system I installed.

Yes. Is this average or exceptional for contractors like yourself? It sounds good to me but I don't know what to compare it to.
If most contractors go 40 years without a single claim this is not so exceptional, but I don't know. I guess you could survey contractors on this site and ask.

[kw10925]

I see everybogys point with the switches. You can't foresee a block of ice if the unit has a problem due to system malfuntion or a era on a homeowner who doesnt do annual maintainance.

[Tony3696]

I see everybogys point with the switches. You can't foresee a block of ice if the unit has a problem due to system malfuntion or a era on a homeowner who doesnt do annual maintainance.

My "This is why you should listen to us & do your yearly maintenance" Speech...
I went to a beautiful house with hand painted murals on the walls & ceiling for a first time maintenance on an 8 year old Spacepak. I quoted a wet switch, new primary pan, and an emergency pan (it didn't have one). The guy said "Naa, it's been fine this long, I just had you guys come out to shut the wife up." The drain primary drain pan was so badly rusted I was afraid to touch it. He paid 10k for the mural & it took the guy almost a year to complete. I told him that it was cheap insurance keep the wife quiet. 3 weeks later I go back on a water leaking call. Half the ceiling was on the floor. Sometimes I told you so just doesn't cut it. (The wife was crying in the bedroom) The guy wouldn't leave so I could take a picture.....

[ga-hvac-tech]

Yes. Is this average or exceptional for contractors like yourself? It sounds good to me but I don't know what to compare it to.
If most contractors go 40 years without a single claim this is not so exceptional, but I don't know. I guess you could survey contractors on this site and ask.

It is called taking pride in your work. In my area (and I believe this is true everywhere)... there are contractors who take personal pride in their work; every job is done as if it were their own house or their parents house. Then there are contractors who are only in it for the $$$... and do the least they can get by with. Care to guess which ones have FEW if ANY issues... and which ones have ENDLESS issues? Hint: Statistics have little if anything to do with it.

[ga-hvac-tech]

My "This is why you should listen to us & do your yearly maintenance" Speech...
I went to a beautiful house with hand painted murals on the walls & ceiling for a first time maintenance on an 8 year old Spacepak. I quoted a wet switch, new primary pan, and an emergency pan (it didn't have one). The guy said "Naa, it's been fine this long, I just had you guys come out to shut the wife up." The drain primary drain pan was so badly rusted I was afraid to touch it. He paid 10k for the mural & it took the guy almost a year to complete. I told him that it was cheap insurance keep the wife quiet. 3 weeks later I go back on a water leaking call. Half the ceiling was on the floor. Sometimes I told you so just doesn't cut it. (The wife was crying in the bedroom) The guy wouldn't leave so I could take a picture.....

This is tacky... however: AMAZING how 'smart' (not) some folks are... I hope he did not try to go after you... Good paperwork (documentation you suggested the safety switch) is a good thing!

[Tony3696]

This is tacky... however: AMAZING how 'smart' (not) some folks are... I hope he did not try to go after you... Good paperwork (documentation you suggested the safety switch) is a good thing!

Waivers are a wonderful thing.

[soaker]

I use a float switch that screws into the secondary coil drain... IMO to stop the water BEFORE it overflows the coil pan is the first line of defense.

If the unit is anywhere other than on a concrete floor, it gets a pan float switch also.

The condensate pump ALWAYS goes IN the pan, and the switch in the condensate pump is always wired in.

If the install is an 80% furnace (most are in my area), then I break the Y... If it is a condensing furnace, then I break R.

And I always install a T in the coil drain... it gets flushed each spring.

So far, so good... in 10 years NO sheetrock repairs. NEVER have made a claim on my G/Liab policy... lets see if I get to continue this way.

I heard there will be a new IMC code requiring the drain line to be configured to allow the clearing of the drain line without having to cut the drain line for all future service.
What products would you use to accomplish this? Jones valve, Easy Klear or what?

[ga-hvac-tech]

I heard there will be a new IMC code requiring the drain line to be configured to allow the clearing of the drain line without having to cut the drain line for all future service.
What products would you use to accomplish this? Jones valve, Easy Klear or what?

Have not seen that code yet... does not mean it is not there... just I have not seen it yet.

If this is indeed code... then I am thinking a PVC union (Lowes has them, as well some supply houses), in the drain as close to the coil as reasonable. Just open the union and blow it out.

[soaker]

I am not sure if unions would be allowed as it is taking apart the line. I believe it will need to be a fixed glued in device like a ball valve with a port. Not sure about it yet.