YORK TRIATHLON NATURAL GAS ENGINE DRIVEN CONDENSING UNIT

[ralphferia]

IN THE 1990'S YORK INTRODUCED A NATURAL GAS ENGINE DRIVEN RESIDENTIAL CONDENSING UNIT. CURRENTLY THE PRICE AND LONG TERM AVAILABILITY OF NATURAL GAS LOOKS FAVORABLE. WE ARE INVESTIGATING THE DESIGNS HISTORY. SOMETHING HAPPENED AND THE UNITS WERE ABRUPTLY WITHDRAWN FROM THE MARKET AFTER ONLY A FEW YEARS. IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE THAT KNOWS ABOUT OR EVER WORKED ON THEM?

[beenthere]

Moved to Tech to Tech Residential forum.

[cri3541]

IN THE 1990'S YORK INTRODUCED A NATURAL GAS ENGINE DRIVEN RESIDENTIAL CONDENSING UNIT. CURRENTLY THE PRICE AND LONG TERM AVAILABILITY OF NATURAL GAS LOOKS FAVORABLE. WE ARE INVESTIGATING THE DESIGNS HISTORY. SOMETHING HAPPENED AND THE UNITS WERE ABRUPTLY WITHDRAWN FROM THE MARKET AFTER ONLY A FEW YEARS. IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE THAT KNOWS ABOUT OR EVER WORKED ON THEM?

We had 2 in Memphis, Tn. on Test homes and yes had a briggs and straton engine driving compressor, varilble speed indoor unit. York paid for Factory traing for us to install the test units.

[ralphferia]

We had 2 in Memphis, Tn. on Test homes and yes had a briggs and straton engine driving compressor, varilble speed indoor unit. York paid for Factory traing for us to install the test units.

THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY.
ANY CHANCE YOU STILL HAVE THE TRAINING OR SERVICE MANUALS? IT WOULD ALSO BE VERY HELPFUL IF WE COULD LOCATE A DECOMISSIONED UNIT FOR EVALUATION. DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE THAT WAS SELLING THEM THAT MIGHT HAVE ONE IN THEIR GRAVE YARD?

[jtrammel]

York bought all of these back that they sold. They were mainly only In test houses. With the advanced technology today it maybe worth looking in to but the triathlon was a mistake

[beenthere]

Turn off your cap lock. Its considered yelling, and impolite to type using all caps.

[ralphferia]

Will do.

[ralphferia]

I dont think it was a mistake, but i do think it was before its time. The engine is very interesting. It was designed by GTI/GRI to operate with minimal service for 40,000 hours. The engine is still in production today, and has recently obtained CARB certification. With 90% heat recovery from the water jacket and exhaust, and a open drive scroll/heatpump coupled to it, efficiencies in the 80%+ range could be achieved. this would far outpace anything connected to a 30% efficient electrical grid.
I am looking for one of these units and technical literature. I found that there had been one for sale online last year so there must still be some around.

[DeltaT]

This type of A/C was also introduced back in the 70's so some search back then might come up with that generation of machines.

[ICanHas]

I made a thread about it a while ago. Search for threads I started. Currently, they're in commercial production by a few Japanese HVAC manufacturers like Yanmar, but not available for US market. If you need one for R&D, import one.

IIRC, engine cycle is on par or slightly less efficient than absorption cycle(measuring COP based on cooling BTU vs fuel energy content BTU), which has far less maintenance requirements. The engine type has a clear advantage in heat pump in frigid climate, because the heat pump cycle not only takes in the outdoor heat, but the engine waste heat as well.

They do come with their own set of problems though. The engine requires maintenance unlike hermetic compressors and its an open drive like car A/C compressor so refrigerant will leak.

They're only practical when the prices of electricity and natural gas are different enough that natural gas has advantage at the current system efficiency and that both utilities are sufficiently high that you can justify the upfront cost of equipment.


http://www.proheatpump.eu/Downloads/...pump%20D19.pdf

[klrogers]

THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY.
ANY CHANCE YOU STILL HAVE THE TRAINING OR SERVICE MANUALS? IT WOULD ALSO BE VERY HELPFUL IF WE COULD LOCATE A DECOMISSIONED UNIT FOR EVALUATION. DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE THAT WAS SELLING THEM THAT MIGHT HAVE ONE IN THEIR GRAVE YARD?

I have some training and service manuals, parts breakdown, controller and thermostat information. Contact me via email (address in profile) if you are interested in copies.

Kevin

[syndicated]

Subscribed.

[bja105]

I started in this trade at a York dealer that had a few Triathalons out there, just as they were failing and being withdrawn. They all had been installed at gas company bigwigs' houses, with some program with York and the utility. I was a helper back then, and never saw one myself. I was told that the Briggs and Stratton engine was not lasting enough.

If there was a similar machine available today, I would like one. We have free gas.
Might as well build in a backup generator, too.

[54regcab]

With utilities going to time of use power pricing programs, the gas engine drive may be worth a 2nd look. Prices during peak hours in our area are much more expensive than off peak. By getting the "big boy" off the grid during peak times it has a HUGE advantage in utility costs. In our area NG goes for 40 cents per therm which is the BTU equal to 2 cents per KWH. On peak rates are typically 22 cents per KWH, off peak is 5 cents per KWH. The gas company makes their money on the $27 monthly meter charge, while selling the gas relatively cheap.

The details are what kills you. Homeowners don't want to mess with their A/C unit. It hard enough to get people to change their filter and clean their condenser, much change oil, tension belts, etc. They want to turn it on and just be cool in their house. I can more see the gas engine units being used more in commercial where they have somebody to maintain them and the savings would be greater due to the larger unit size.

[beenthere]

Subscribed.

You can click on Thread Tools, and then click on Subscribe, then you don't have to make a post to subscribe.

[syndicated]

You can click on Thread Tools, and then click on Subscribe, then you don't have to make a post to subscribe.

I did, twice, and this thread didn't get added to my list. Hence the post.

[beenthere]

I did, twice, and this thread didn't get added to my list. Hence the post.

Hmm, always works for me.

Click subscribe to thread, then click add subscription.

[ICanHas]

I seem to recall that there's a line of products in Yanmar that is self-exciting. The basic engine heat pump requires utility power for fans and controls. The Self-exciting type starts up and provides all its electrical need from engine like a car. The co-generation is also available in higher kW so to supplement or provide for emergency power in the building.

It appears to be a feasible idea for restaurants in developing countries and remote areas with frequent outages. The system provides HVAC and power for refrigeration and minimum needed to keep the business running until the power is restored.

[jnsrose]

What a cool unit the Triathalon was.(so I thought) We put in about 14 of them at a school for the special needs. Way ahead of its time. Had some training and then off I went with the install. Had to run natural gas line to condenser along with to 7/8 copper lines for a little glycol loop that was heated buy engine a small backup boiler in condenser then piped to a coil in the air handler. The coolest thing was when the condenser started and it sounded like your tractor was starting. Problem was the service calls. You would get a call a go out. You need a special service tool to connect to the machine to tell you what was wrong.Most of our service calls were engine related and you could see how that could be a problem for an Hvac/r service tech. Was sad to see them go.

[OldSchoolMech]

I Love York and hearing about these machines just make me love them more. Does anyone have a picture of these beats or are they that top secert?