Ac help?, heil high pressure cutout

[jlanesey]

I'm working on my uncles heil 3 ton condensing unit.

I do mostly residential gas and oil but am learning ac this year.

My uncle has been complaining of a hard start so I went over to check it out.

The unit is a r-22 condensor here is the plate

This is the build sheet from the goodman a/h it's attached to

I attached my testo 570 manifold to monitor the pressures on start up.

Before starting the unit sits at about 130 psi equal with maybe a few pounds difference.

On start up the high side climbs to 350+ and hits the high pressure switch and kicks the compressor.

The compressor restarts and climbs, but starts dropping before it hits the switch. The second run cycle the compressor reaches running pressure and sounds smooth. Today with a temperature of 80 outside I had 105* saturation temp on my liquid line which I understand to be good for r-22.

My evaporator temp seemed really low at 27-28* which made me think the unit was under charged or had leaked, but after more investigation I found he only had one central return with a 14x14 opening directly into the plenum that sounded like a vacuum cleaner.

We added two more 8" return flexed out about 15' and that helped pull much more air across the evap and raised the evap temp up to around 37-38*. I noticed through as I ran some liquid into my gauges that it had a reddish color for a second that I have never seen before.

So, now my low pressure sits around 65-70* with a saturation temp of 38*, my high side around 220 with a saturation of around 105-107*.

Once the unit is running it is fine but the really hard start and hitting the high pressure switch has me stumped.

I notice on the condensor it says txv Indoor and the unit has a piston orifice. I tried putting a hard start kit on the unit and a new turbo 200 cap just as a easy yes or no and it made no difference.

The filter drier on unit is a copper tube about 3/4 diameter brazed into liquid line. I've never seen one like this and am wondering if maybe it is restricted?

Any help or advice would be appreciated. I've asked some of the senior techs at my shop but won't be back in till tommorrow and not knowing is driving me crazy!!!

[jlanesey]

More info,

Compressor amp draw
12 amps
Indoor temp at testing 74* DB
Outdoor DB 80*

[Tommyz23]

The hard start could be liquid refrigerant in the compressor. Check your temp drop before and after the filter drier. Should have more than a degree or so. I think. How's it cooling now that you've corrected the airflow problem?

[jlanesey]

It cools really well, 20* across the evap coil.

[jlanesey]

One of my coworkers suggested the lack of return could be what was causing the liquid refrigerant coming back on the low side due to incomplete evaporation. Adding the two 8" returns didn't change the hard start at all though and the problem with it hitting the Hp switch seemed to get worse after that.

[Tommyz23]

Check your SH and SC. Over charge can cause hard starting. Is it a rotary compressor?

[jlanesey]

Scroll compressor.

[Tommyz23]

I've had some of those that are loud or have become loud.

[socotech]

First get your charge correct.
Then figure out why and what to do about flooded start. Check crankcase heater also.

[jlanesey]

First get your charge correct.
Then figure out why and what to do about flooded start. Check crankcase heater also.

Well, the condensor calls for 9* subcooling with indoor txv. The air handler is fixed orifice. So my 9* subcooling won't work. I need to charge to superheat right? And how many degrees superheat would be an acceptable starting point?

The compressor has a crank case heater installed that seems to be working.

[socotech]

Do you know indoor wet bulb?

[jlanesey]

No I don't have a psychrometer yet but I will set my guitar hygrometer in the house to find RH and report back tommorrow with the WB. Maybe try and pick up a psychrometer tommorrow.

Would an overcharge cause the unit climbing to high pressure cutout on startup?

[cavalieri85]

why not recover your charge and weigh in your charge pe the nameplate. while i had the charge out i would check my piston size. make sure you weigh your charge as you recover it. if you pull 19 lbs out of a unit that should only have about 10 then you can start looking for your restriction. is there a drier inside the condenser.

[socotech]

Yes, but how did it get overcharged? How has a 2007 model unit ran this long flooding? Is evap dirty?

[jlanesey]

The return was so small it was almost vacuuming all of the dust out of the house. When I first went there the filter was really bad and struggling for air and that's why we added the returns.

I'm not sure if whoever worked on the unit previously might have added thinking the charge was low trying to bring up the evap saturation temp.

I also foaming cleaned the evap coil and the condensor.

I will bring the reclaimer there and try and pull the unit down. At that point I might as well change the filter drier and check the orifice.

He says since the second year of operation the compressor has been making the noise progressively worse.

[Tommyz23]

Damage may be done.

[rundawg]

The air handler is fixed orifice. I need to charge to superheat right? And how many degrees superheat would be an acceptable starting point?

Yes.

Send me an email(address is in my profile), and I will get you a superheat charging chart.

[jlanesey]

He is ready to cut everything out and install new a/h and condensor. I'd rather fix it though. I can't see spending a couple grand when it could be a minor problem. The compressor may even still be under warranty.

[BALloyd]

I was looking at your pictures of the Goodman build sheet. I see a model number across the top. Then the items circled. I am a little confused why the 36 for a 3ton unit is circled when there is a 24 indicating a 2 ton unit in the model number up top.

Is it a 3 ton air handler or a 2 ton air handler? The condensing unit appears to be a 3 ton, so if you have a 2 ton air handler....gonna have some issues....

[jlanesey]

I was looking at your pictures of the Goodman build sheet. I see a model number across the top. Then the items circled. I am a little confused why the 36 for a 3ton unit is circled when there is a 24 indicating a 2 ton unit in the model number up top.

Is it a 3 ton air handler or a 2 ton air handler? The condensing unit appears to be a 3 ton, so if you have a 2 ton air handler....gonna have some issues....

Woah! Good catch! Didn't even notice that. I'm gonna go tommorrow and look at the plate on the unit and see if that matches the top number.