OIL to GAS burner on boiler

[AWill]

My house is 3 bedroom 1.5 story built in appoximately 1948. It has an original ARCO Ideal Cast Iron Water Boiler supplying hydronic radiator heat. The current Mectron 5M oil burner was installed prior to 1995 and has been operating without problems, with regular maintenance since that time.
Last year work was completed to update the venting which included the installation of a stainless steel chimney liner with appropriate flashing and capping.


What a lovely Beast!

This year I have been informed that my oil tank had to be inspected before any further deliveries would be made. On inspection the tank was found to be weeping with 'No Immediate Hazzard' and I have 90 days in which to correct the situation before fuel delivery will continue.
So far the options given to me by my current fuel oil supplier are:
Replace the oil tank ($)
Replace the oil boiler ($)
Replace the oil boiler with a gas boiler ($)
One option that they failed to mention was replacing the oil burner with a gas burner. Gas is already being supplied to the house for cooking, and the chimney liner was installed last year.
Technical personnel in the engineering department of Riello have confirmed that replacing the Riello Mectron 5M oil burner with a current Riello 40 Series Gas Burner is possible. As the boiler has previously been updated to burn oil, a simple replacement fuel option seems possible.

Where do I find a licensed contractor to do this work. I've talked to a couple. One said it is not something that their company would do. Another said it couldn't be done because their isn't a gas burner that would work. He also said he's never heard of a Mectron 5M. Puzzling!

Comments would be appreciated.

[wahoo]

You're talking about finding a contractor who'll install a new gas burner into a boiler originally installed in 1948? I can't imagine what the efficiency would be on that old of a boiler, but I'd be surprised if it was 60%. Why would you not just go ahead and install a new high efficiency boiler which would be much more efficient?

[BaldLoonie]

1948? Sure looks way older than that. I wouldn't put a penny in it. 60% efficient is likely being generous!

[beenthere]

Better off getting a high efficiency gas boiler

[wahoo]

The problem that I can see is that this older boiler will not contain a lot of the safety controls needed to eliminate the liability involved with putting a new burner in it.

[STEVEusaPA]

It's got all you need, a high limit, and you can climb in and clean it. Not to pile on, but ya need a new boiler, although you won't get 75 years out of the new one

[AWill]

Thanks for all your comments.
My plan is keep this until I have to get new one.

STEVEusaPA
It's got all you need, a high limit, and you can climb in and clean it. Not to pile on, but ya need a new boiler, although you won't get 75 years out of the new one*

It still works with oil. When will I see a return on my investment on a new boiler, Oil or Gas?


Today, 02:13 PMwahoo
The problem that I can see is that this older boiler will not contain a lot of the safety controls needed to eliminate the liability involved with putting a new burner in it.
What Liability is that?

Today, 01:44 PMbeenthere
Better off getting a high efficiency gas boiler
High-Efficiency Gas is NOT a good choice for Hydronic Radiant Heating apparently.

Today, 01:44 PMBaldLoonie
1948? Sure looks way older than that. I wouldn't put a penny in it. 60% efficient is likely being generous!

Would that be 60% efficient with Gas or Oil or Both? If I'm getting 60% efficiency with oil now, what have I got to loose?

Today, 01:42 PMwahoo
You're talking about finding a contractor who'll install a new gas burner into a boiler originally installed in 1948? I can't imagine what the efficiency would be on that old of a boiler, but I'd be surprised if it was 60%. Why would you not just go ahead and install a new high efficiency boiler which would be much more efficient?

I am paying about $3500 annually on oil.
In how many years will I see a return on my investment on a new boiler, Oil ($5,000) or Gas ($7,000)?


More Comments Welcome.

[STEVEusaPA]

I think you got all the comments you need, don't you? You can do some basic math and see it makes sense. If you need to be more convinced that replacing a 60% efficient boiler wont give you a return for your investment, more comments aren't gonna help. Get a competent professional in there, do a complete heat loss, with primary/secondary piping, outdoor reset, and a modern boiler (gas or oil), and he/she will tell you how fast your payback will be.
Dont know how you came to this conclusion-"High-Efficiency Gas is NOT a good choice for Hydronic Radiant Heating apparently".

[small change]

I had a 1973 Cutlass with a rocket 350 in it and an Eldorado Bench Black leather seat.
It had 3 on the tree. But the floorboards were rotted out and I used stop signs to keep the flintstone
effect from taking place. One day I just decided it was time to put her to rest, There wasn't any sense in putting more money into that car.

You probably could find someone to install a power burner in that old beast of a boiler.

If that is what you want to spend your money on.....Hey who are we to tell you different

You did want our opinions I think

I would upgrade myself

[dave sulz]

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[AWill]

Thanks for your input.

[SBres22]

Also as a side note, be sure that there is enough gas being piped to your house allready. There may be a gas line big enough to cook, but is it big enough to heat the whole house??

And, I'm with the majority. Get a high efficiency boiler, if you are spending $3500 on oil now, you'll probably start seeing a R.O.I. real soon. just figure, you are probably getting 86,000 btu's of heat outta every gallon of oil instead of close to 125,000 btu's per gallon on an 85% efficient oil burner. so just figure you can save 1/3 of your cost. SO, about a grand a year in savings on bill! ALL THESE NUMBERS ARE APPROXIMATES!!

[AWill]

I think you got all the comments you need, don't you? You can do some basic math and see it makes sense. If you need to be more convinced that replacing a 60% efficient boiler wont give you a return for your investment, more comments aren't gonna help. Get a competent professional in there, do a complete heat loss, with primary/secondary piping, outdoor reset, and a modern boiler (gas or oil), and he/she will tell you how fast your payback will be.
Dont know how you came to this conclusion-"High-Efficiency Gas is NOT a good choice for Hydronic Radiant Heating apparently".

Since you're interested, I got the information from the Natural Resources Canada at http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/equipment/heating/12244

"A condensing boiler can have an AFUE rating of 90 percent or higher. But in practice, condensing boilers in hydronic (hot water) heating systems can have difficulty achieving this efficiency."


​

[AWill]

I have been looking up additional information and with the great discrepancy in cost of oil ($1.08 per litre) and the cost of gas ($0.09846 per cubic meter),this accounts for the cost difference between oil and gas heating. Just by switching fuel and using the same heating system would save me a great deal each year. The figures I got from the Cost Calculator at Natural Resources Canada concurs with yours, a one third savings.

Thanks for the info.

[beenthere]

Since you're interested, I got the information from the Natural Resources Canada at http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/equipment/heating/12244

"A condensing boiler can have an AFUE rating of 90 percent or higher. But in practice, condensing boilers in hydronic (hot water) heating systems can have difficulty achieving this efficiency."


​

If you have cast iron rads. A gas condensing boiler will save you the most on your heating bill, as far as new boilers go. they like any other boiler must be installed properly.

[beenthere]

dave sulz, this is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise, commentary, or ask questions to the OP here. Please apply to the AOPC today, thank you.

You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

Your post has been deleted.
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[R Mannino]

If you switch to a HIGH efficiency gas system I'd bet you get your money back on it in about five years, assuming that natural gas prices stay the same. And you would then only have a five year old heating system.

[bobboan]

[QUOTE=AWill;14067881]Since you're interested, I got the information from the Natural Resources Canada at http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/equipment/heating/12244

[B][I]"[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana]A condensing boiler can have an AFUE rating of 90 percent or higher. But in practice, condensing boilers in hydronic (hot water) heating systems can have difficulty achieving this efficiency."

If you'll read the quote a little closer, you'll notice that it it doesn't say that a high efficiency boiler is a bad choice for high temp hydronics it says it "can have difficulty achieving" its efficiency rating. The reason for this is simple: the lower the return water temp to a mod/con, the higher its operating efficiency will be. If it's hooked to a high temp system where the return water temp is constantly above 140*, it won't be in its condensing mode and the efficiency will drop to about 88-90%. If the return water temp is below 110*, then its efficiency will be 97%+.

A mod/con comes with outdoor reset. This feature adjusts water temp to match the load: i.e. the warmer the outdoor temp, the lower the water temp. You only need 180* water when it's 0* outside. The Nation Resources statement doesn't account for this and is in that sense inaccurate about a mod/con. Outdoor reset allows the mod/con to run in condensing mode the majority of the heating season resulting in a boiler that's operating well above 90% most of the time.

Regarding your current boiler: it's doubtful that its efficiency was at 45% when it came out of the crate. And, that's a 1920's boiler. Someone may have brought it in from a previous house when yours was built. It's a gravity flow that may have been converted to forced flow. So is your system which is actually good news: they operate very efficiently with lower temps that mod/cons like vs. the higher temps required by baseboard.

Do yourself and your wallet a favor and install a good mod/con. I would not put a dime in what you've got.

Also, make sure you choose a good hydronics pro: that's far more important than the brand of boiler.

[BaldLoonie]

I'd guess in a house that old, you have cast iron radiators, not copper fintube baseboard?

[jtrammel]

Get a condensing boiler and keep that old beast as a display/conversation piece.