Bad E-15 defrost timer for Amana package unit

[bobbie69]

I have a 34 year old Amana heat pump package unit that unbelievably is still in fairly good shape, but recently it started to ice up in the heat mode when it's cold outside. It cools fine, and actually heats fine until the condensor ices up. It only ices up in heat mode.

I had a local tech come out and look at it, he didn't do any tests but said it was the defrost timer, but as my unit is so old he didn't have an original type timer which he said was an E-15. It's a box about 2 inches square with a long wire or thin tube that runs to a bulb that is soldered to the left lower edge of the condensor tubes and covered in a thick green putty.

My questions: should I replace the E-15 with an original mechanical type (they are still available) or should I retrofit the newer replacement which is a circuit board type??
A mechanic type E-15 costs around $, an E-15 circuit board replacement costs around [COLOR="Red"]$[/COLOR. Will the circuit board do a better job than the original type??

There isn't enough room where the current E-15 sits for the circuit board but in the panel to the right of that is a fairly open area with just some wires running through it, I think the board could be mounted there.

Thanks

[comfortdoc]

What does the technician suggest?

[bobbie69]

The tech was not all that enthusiastic, just said he didn't have that type defrost timer in stock and would have to order it. He acted like he had never seen this type of unit or the E-15, he didn't recognize the type (in my original post I said he did, but now I recall he didn't know what it was called) ,probably because the unit was older than he was. I found out the type of timer by walking into a HVAC parts shop and describing what I had, the parts counter guy knew immediately what it was.

Anyone out there have experience with this particular type unit?

Is it better to replace with the old type defrost timer or retrofit a newer type circuit board?

[bobbie69]

Why would someone edit out the retail price for a part?? I've been on many different type forums for years and never saw anyone do that, to any post not just mine?? I could understand maybe if one tech was competing against another via estimates, but there again, that's not the purpose of this forum, is it, to generate business for companies?? And if a moderator did that i would assume they would send a note to the OP explaining why that was done?? I am new to the forum, but it does seem unusual.

Either way, not a big deal, price is not my main consideration, it is whether I should have a tech use an original type E-15 or retrofit using a circuit board type for this package unit??

[skippedover]

If price isn't your consideration, then may I ask why you're still using a 34-year old heat pump? Kudos to Amana but considering the efficiency of said system, you're woefully behind the power curve on both energy consumption and indoor comfort. Then again, I suppose you're still driving a 1978 Camaro on a daily basis that you purchased new and have only changed the oil every 3,000 miles, right?

[wahoo]

Agree with Swamp, just pay someone who knows what he is doing to convert it. If your "buddy" seems unsure, he probably is not that proficient at rewiring a heat pump. Get a professional.

[bobbie69]

Swampfox; thanks for your reply. I was able to find what I think is the original type timer online, but also found the retrofit type replacement circuit board at a parts supply house, but of course wouldn't attempt to do the work myself.

Could you give me more background on the parts you're referring to? I've already contacted a few HVAC companies, as mentioned above as soon as I mention the unit they immediately want to sell me a new unit, I think they just don't have any old heads who have experience with this old type unit. I just cannot afford a new unit until maybe this summer. Just trying to keep the pipes from freezing through the winter.

What I see looking at the panel is a 2 inch square box with three spade connectors going to it, and from that is a thin copper tube or wire that runs to a bulb that appears to be soldered to the lower outside edge of the condenser coil. There is also a round dial sorta thingy near it, no idea if they work together??


I also called a HVAC service company in another state (someone who works on a relative's unit in Florida), he said he would replace the defrost timer with the original type, said the circuit board type would not last long in the elements, but maybe he was basing that on his experiences in Florida and the humidity, salt air etc?? IDK.

Appreciate your help

[bobbie69]

Agree with Swamp, just pay someone who knows what he is doing to convert it. If your "buddy" seems unsure, he probably is not that proficient at rewiring a heat pump. Get a professional.

Wahoo: I don't have any buddies who are HVAC techs, just one tech who came to look at it from a local company, he said he had never worked on anything like what I have, because it is so old, but he also seemed not all that well trained or experienced. I have had work done on it over the years, new contacts (they called them peanuts?), new circuit breaker, and a new blower motor. I replaced all the insulation on the entire package unit a few years ago, resealed all the panels, repainted it. You really would never guess it was so old until you opened it up and saw the equivalent of vacuum tubes staring back at you!!

[jpsmith1cm]

Swampfox,

This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.

You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

This is your first warning. Additional infractions will result in infraction points and, ultimately, loss of posting privileges.

[comfortdoc]

Upgrade to modern control and you might see a slight increase in efficiency. Find a contractor that will repair it if that is what you want.

[bobbie69]

comfortdoc: what part should I use for this 34 year old Amana package unit in place of the E-15 ?manual timer? Is it a straight forward installation for a half way competent tech? I need to know as my local techs either don't know how to work on this unit or don't want to mess with it. They really just want to sell me a new unit. It's not that I don't want to spend the money, it's that I have NO money, none, zero, nada, credit cards maxed out, done. I will have to sell something in order to get enough cash to pay them even if the total charge is only $150. It is very cold in the house.

[Swampfox]

There are generic electronic defrost controls that can be retrofitted to pretty much any heat pump, The old Amana would be one of the most challenging though, you'll need someone who really knows what they are doing.

Call around and tell them your situation, surely there is someone in your area who would be up to the task, some techs actually take pride in fixing things others cant or wont.

[bobbie69]

Can anyone tell me the exact parts I need? The original timer is about a 2x2x2 inch square box with three spade connectors on it and a thin copper ?tube running to a bulb on the condenser.

[bobbie69]

Bringing this back to see if anyone out there can help me.

[marvin]

if memory serves me right that old amana did not use an
e 15 as oem. it used a paragon timer & a 30/60 control
but was an easy conversion to the e15.

[bobbie69]

if memory serves me right that old amana did not use an
e 15 as oem. it used a paragon timer & a 30/60 control
but was an easy conversion to the e15.

marvin, I really don't know what the part is, but it looks like a square box about 2x2x2 inches with if I recall correctly three wires connected to the top via spade connectors. Then there is a solid copper wire or ?thin metal tube that runs to a bulb that is stuck to the lower edge of the condensor coil covered in a thick green putty.

Does this sound like the paragon timer?

either way, there is no room to put anything much larger in that location, definitely not a control board. However to the right of that panel there is another side panel that just has a bunch of wires running through it; I think a board could be mounted in that location.

Could you tell me what I should use as a defrost timer? My local guys aren't really that good and they always just want to sell me a new unit, sight unseen. I do not have the cash or credit for a new unit, have to fix this one as cheaply as possible.

Thanks

[marvin]

where are you located

[bobbie69]

Marvin; I'm not in Nevada, Tennessee. The local companies have been trying to sell me a new unit for 25 years, almost every time they come out to service it, which has only been about 6-7 times. One company even charged me for a few pounds of Freon, then a couple of years later another company comes out for something else, I asked them to check the Freon level, they say, and show me, that there are no Schrader valves, never were any, sealed at the factory, but that other company still charged me for Freon they could not have put in. That's what I'm dealing with, a lot of shady practices in my neck of the woods. There used to be an old timer who was an honest Christian and he did excellent work, only what was needed, and never ever overcharged; unfortunately for me he retired.

Over those years this 30 year old Amana package unit has only needed two mechanical contacts replaced, one of those small oval shiny metal cans (forget the name), the main circuit breaker for the unit, and the blower motor which I replaced because no one wanted to do the job, they all just wanted to sell me a new unit. That's it for 25 years.

It still cools very well and only freezes up when it goes into heat mode. If I clear the ice off using a garden hose then turn the unit back on it heats fine, until it freezes back up again. Seems only to happen if the outside temp is like below maybe ??50.

I did talk to one tech just now, he said he could replace the old mechanical timer and a few other components with a control board. He didn't however seem to know the type of timer I had with a bulb, but he did say sometimes you could just replace the bulb or sensor??

I think the main thing I need to find is someone who knows these old units, this thing doesn't have any sort of circuit boards or digital electronics, all mechanical looking components, maybe that's why it has lasted so long?? IDK.

Any suggestions on how to replace the defrost timer and what with would be appreciated. I will not of course be doing the work, just need to know so that I better know if the tech is doing the right thing.

Thanks

[beenthere]

Don not make other threads about this topic. Or other threads pointing to this thread. They will be deleted.

[bobbie69]

Don not make other threads about this topic. Or other threads pointing to this thread. They will be deleted.

I see you have 56,000 posts, are you an HVAC expert? Can you answer my questions about this 30 year old Amana package unit??