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  1. #1

    Carrier Edge versus Infinity Thermostat

    I have 2 Carrier Infinity gas furnaces (1 is an Infinity 58MVC - installed in basement, and the other is an Infinity 58CVA - installed in attic). I have 2 Carrier Performance Heat Pumps ....

    Our HVAC company installed Carrier Edge Thermostats (the ones with the controller mounted by the furnace). The systems are wired conventionally and configured for 2 stages of gas heat as well as heat pump/AC control. They work fine .... Current basement furnace uses Thermostat to control Humidifier (AprilAir 600) as well.

    I hear people talk about the Infinity thermostats .... they provide more information about the system, provide readout of static pressure, etc...

    1) If I were to have my HVAC company replace the thermostats, would they need to also change the wiring to the Performance Heat Pump units (i.e.: use the ABCD wiring/communicating instead of conventional)?

    2) My HVAC company was not originally aware of this option when they were installing the systems originally because they ended up running new low voltage wiring to one of the units because there were not enough conductors with the existing wiring (for the previous AC unit that was replaced). What does my HVAC company need to ask for with respect to ABCD/communicating plugs/etc. that we assume din't come with a replacement Infinity Thermostat and did not come with the furnace/heat pumps?

    3) I have a BGE energy control on each heat pump - There would need to be some sort of change to this as well if I replaced the Thermostat(s)?

    My HVAC company did a very good installation of the system (Manual-J, reduced size of system, checked combustion, etc.) but did not have as much knowledge with respect to the Infinity control options (they install mostly Performance series and are much more familiar with Edge Thermidistats). I am just curious if there is any benefit with my setup?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Powell River, BC, Canada
    Posts
    763
    The Infinity controls will give you better control over the staging of the units and better monitoring of the system operation and troubleshooting. You will need a 4 wire (ABCD) plug for each of the indoor and outdoor units (IIRC the controllers come with one plug in the box). The Infinity UI is compatible with utility energy controls and will also control the humidifier.

    I have installed several heat pump and hybrid-heat Infinity systems and the customers love them. Because they can provide so much information on the system operation, some customers start to obsess over every little detail and start messing with settings all the time. It's best to just get things set up correctly and then just leave it to do it's thing. It will 'learn' the heating and cooling needs of your house and optimize itself for best performance, but if you keep adjusting the settings it will have a hard time 'learning' and can cause some unusual operating issues.
    Where are you? Are you done yet? I got ONE more call for you.....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    88
    The Infinity control is worth the upgrade. With your 2-stage heat pumps, you will beable to control the humidity better in the summer. That feature alone to me is worth it. I installed a Infinity system (furnace and heat pump) in my house almost 2 years ago. Love it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    butler pa
    Posts
    1,073
    add the infinity controllers to finish your systems...without them its like having a corvette then putting on 4 space saver tires . it will get you down the road-but not with the performance you should expect

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,837
    What you have is a mixture of product levels, which requires some compromises. With the Infinity 2-stage gas furnace, you've got a Lexus product being controlled by a Ford thermostat. Having said that, the outdoor unit is a Ford unit to begin with so the Ford thermostat is okay in that application. If you were our customer, we would have included the Infinity User Interface as part of the purchase cost. In addition, if you opted for something (anything) other than an Infinity Heat Pump, then you'll need a Network Interface Module (NIM) to allow the User Interface to control the HP and Hybrid Heat functions.

    This is needed because the Performance Level heat pumps are not communicating units, a requirement of the Infinity User Interface to control the entire system. Absent that component being able to communicate directly, your system needs an "interpreter" to tell the User Interface what is on the other end of the line so it will know how to control it. Installing the NIM and programming the User Interface is something that should be done by a trained Infinity or Bryant Evolution (same product line, different product part numbers) technician. It's very difficult for a non-trained tech to get everything right on the User Interface set-up, particularly when not everything is Infinity compatible.

  6. #6
    Is the Performance HP not communicating? It does have the ABCD connector on the circuit board according to the installation manual from what our HVAC installer said.

    When we got the system we were told that the current Performance series was essentially the previous Infinity series but with a single stage compressor. We have a 15 Seer system.

    Our HVAC company would do all work.

    Thanks for the comments so far.

  7. #7
    We were quoted Performance furnaces originally but our installer came with Infinity ones ...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Powell River, BC, Canada
    Posts
    763
    If it has the green ABCD plug on the board then it is infinity compatible without needing the interface module.
    Where are you? Are you done yet? I got ONE more call for you.....

  9. #9
    Excellent - I confirmed with our HVAC company that we do have the green ABCD receptacle on our Performance outdoor HP units - our HVAC company will have to order 2 ABCD plugs though because they mentioned that there is only the receptacle (where the ABCD plug with wire screws connects into the receptacle) on each outdoor unit and the same with the indoor furnaces - the thermostats only come with one each.

    I wonder if those plugs were included with the Infinity furnaces originally and discarded when the HVAC installers were finished (because they were not needed with their original install)?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    1,394
    It might not be approved by BGE to install there controller with the Infinity controls.
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  11. #11
    BGE claimed they needed access to our thermostat/Infinity system when they installed their controller box (they said it was compatible) but when they actually arrived they said that without the Infinity thermostat their system would be connected conventionally (apparently it would work either way ...)

    Good point though - I will need to have them come back out after our HVAC company makes the changes ....

  12. #12
    Update from HVAC company:
    Basement furnace: 58MVC080
    Outside Unit: 25HPA536
    Outside unit and furnace are compatible with Infinity controller

    Attic Furnace:58CVA090
    Outside Unit:25HPA524
    Outside unit and furnace are compatible with Infinity controller

    For the basement:
    HVAC company proposed installing "Green Plugs??", disconnecting BGE controller (I would need to have BGE visit to reinstall using a different set of terminals??), connecting April-Air 600 Humidifier to Furnace controller instead of Edge Thermidistat controller, and swapping out Edge Thermidistat for the Infinity controller.

    HVAC company stated the following:
    ROI would not be great because of the labor involved with the swapping of wiring (not complicated though). Current Thermostat does provide 2 stage heating with gas furnace with Heatpump set to run above OAT of 30. Current Thermostat does control Humidifier.

    Advantage of Infinity controller would be better control of defrost cycles on Heat Pump (would save some energy $$), ability to fine-tune system??, much better for him to trouble-shoot problems on furnace.

    Disadvantage for him would be setting up thermostat - he hasn't done very many infinity controller installs so he is not familiar with all of the intricate settings ....

    Questions I had for HVAC company that are not answered:
    Will the Infinity controller provide 3 stages of furnace use (current thermostat does 2 (and HVAC company has it set to low and high stages which so far have been fine), or HVAC company can allow furnace to stage itself)?

    Will the humidity control be any different than with the current system?

    (Actually we noticed a problem with lower than normal humidity recently and the HVAC technician that came to provide us an estimate found a plastic plug had fallen out of the opposite side where the system draws outside air for combustion - he said it was sucking air from the basement into the combustion chamber. He added a bolt to hold it in place - said it was missed during the install and probably fell out.) I offered to pay him for this repair but he refused to take anything for it.

    Attic Unit:
    Similar install but no Humidifier .....

    HVAC company recommended maybe trying it on one unit to start with .... I sensed a reluctance on their part ....??

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,060
    Quote Originally Posted by chloeourdog View Post
    Update from HVAC company:
    Basement furnace: 58MVC080
    Outside Unit: 25HPA536
    Outside unit and furnace are compatible with Infinity controller

    Attic Furnace:58CVA090
    Outside Unit:25HPA524
    Outside unit and furnace are compatible with Infinity controller

    For the basement:
    HVAC company proposed installing "Green Plugs??", disconnecting BGE controller (I would need to have BGE visit to reinstall using a different set of terminals??), connecting April-Air 600 Humidifier to Furnace controller instead of Edge Thermidistat controller, and swapping out Edge Thermidistat for the Infinity controller.

    HVAC company stated the following:
    ROI would not be great because of the labor involved with the swapping of wiring (not complicated though). Current Thermostat does provide 2 stage heating with gas furnace with Heatpump set to run above OAT of 30. Current Thermostat does control Humidifier.

    Advantage of Infinity controller would be better control of defrost cycles on Heat Pump (would save some energy $$), ability to fine-tune system??, much better for him to trouble-shoot problems on furnace.

    Disadvantage for him would be setting up thermostat - he hasn't done very many infinity controller installs so he is not familiar with all of the intricate settings ....

    Questions I had for HVAC company that are not answered:
    Will the Infinity controller provide 3 stages of furnace use (current thermostat does 2 (and HVAC company has it set to low and high stages which so far have been fine), or HVAC company can allow furnace to stage itself)?

    Will the humidity control be any different than with the current system?

    (Actually we noticed a problem with lower than normal humidity recently and the HVAC technician that came to provide us an estimate found a plastic plug had fallen out of the opposite side where the system draws outside air for combustion - he said it was sucking air from the basement into the combustion chamber. He added a bolt to hold it in place - said it was missed during the install and probably fell out.) I offered to pay him for this repair but he refused to take anything for it.

    Attic Unit:
    Similar install but no Humidifier .....

    HVAC company recommended maybe trying it on one unit to start with .... I sensed a reluctance on their part ....??
    If you decide to do this change the only thing you will be able to see differently is diagnostic history and cfm/ static pressure readings. A lot of money for information that does not give you a return on investment.

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