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  1. #1
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    R410a vs R407c - which would you install in your home ?

    R407c was specifically designed to replace R22 and provide 'identical performance' to R22 - same pressures, same equipment. Europe banned R22 long ago and has been using R407c and R134a for more than a decade - comparable performance to R22 and no problems.

    R410a has higher enthalpy than R22 and runs at higher pressures, so manufacturers can make equipment smaller per/ton as compared to (R22/R407c) reducing their manufacturing costs - but these higher pressures required R410a equipment to be redesigned, thicker compressor case and smaller displacement scroll, and thicker wall coil tubing - all causing lots of premature failures, leaks...

    No surprise, the industry is pushing R410a like it's the 'only alternative to R22'... Ha...

    How do you guys feel about R410a vs R407c, which would you install in your home ?

    http://www.emersonnetworkpower.com/d...0for%20r22.pdf

  2. #2
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    Sep 2003
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    West New York, NJ
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    R-410a seems like the one that would create the lowest environmental impact. This is for what I choose in my home.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2002
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    texas
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    Finished converting 12 ton lennox unit form R22 - to R407c. Chose R407c becouse of operating pressures.
    Unit has been in service for a coupple of days now and is maintaining indoor temps. So for me its 407c.

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  5. #4
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    Good thought but, not a consideration since R410a and R407c have the same environmental impact... (0 - ODP, Ozone Depleting Potential) (2k - GWP Global Warming Potential) here's the list of all refrigerants compared. Again, R407c has been used in Europe for over a decade to replace R22 after they banned it - we're just now banning R22 in the US.

    So my question considers only the technical/performance merits of both gas and equipment.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_refrigerants

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    Kansas City
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    Only problem with putting 407c system in your house, where are you going to find new 407c equipment.

  7. #6
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    Jun 2016
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    Dry R22 system - R407c is designed to operate in an R22 system. Not sure how much longer they'll sell these though

  8. #7
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    Jan 2011
    Location
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
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    We have retrofitted three systems from r22 to r407c now with no problems whatsoever. We have noticed that the charge is about 80% of what an old r22 charge would be. So charge by superheat/subcooling/amps and indoor temperature drop (return/supply air) not by the weight listed on the data plate for an old r22 system. We are really happy with 407C so far.

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  10. #8
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    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenback, Tennessee
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozydeco View Post
    these higher pressures required R410a equipment to be redesigned, thicker compressor case and smaller displacement scroll, and thicker wall coil tubing - all causing lots of premature failures, leaks...
    Actually r410a has a lower compression ratio, in most applications than r22. I do not think that it is true that 410a systems have more premature compressor failures than r22. With proper serve/installation practices, the reverse is true.
    -Marty

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  12. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    ARK.
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    'Problem with 410-A was the Manuf's going for the most efficiency and effectively screwing Themselves,and Us,with thinner Copper tubing. SOOO many finpack leaks from Everybody..
    Reason They went Alum.Better transfer and thicker tube.

    I see old Carrier 90's 410-A equipment with the old 22 evap design still running strong Today.No 14 SEER magic performance but Reliable.
    Humm?? Go figure...
    No matter how long you have been doing this,
    Go back and reread the Basic's.You WILL Learn something.
    Why is it called,an Act of GOD when IT has Nothing to do with Him?
    Will of the Devil would be more appropriate IMO.Just Saying.
    PSALMS, 18 & 25.
    I am Tired of High Efficiency Propaganda.

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  14. #10
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    Jun 2016
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    m singer - respectfully, wrong sir. Compressors for R410a are 'specially designed for R410a' - go to the Copeland site, there's information and pictures that show what's different; thicker case, internal high pressure bypass valve, smaller scrolls because of higher compression ratio - and a few other things.

    Every component of an R410a AC system is different than a R22 system, evap, cond, comp, txv, line size...

    Every component of an R407c system is exactly the same as an R22 system....

    Just a few fun facts - I have over 2 dozen OEM website links if anyone is interested in reading about specific differences.

  15. #11
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    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
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    Me personally in my home? Well if my coil wasn't leaking, and it was less than 10 years old, I would go with a 410A condenser and change the valve or piston. Doing it this way, if your coil developed a leak in the future, you're already good to go with the 410A condenser.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". -Vernon Law-

    "Skilled Labor Isn't Cheap, Cheap Labor Isn't Skilled" - Unknown


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  17. #12
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    Jun 2016
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    m singer - you are absolutely right about the 'lower compression ratio' - the smaller scrolls do lower the compression ratio. Please forgive me for mis-speaking - 'R410a's higher pressures required a compressor with lower compression ratio to prevent stalls.'

    Regarding the specialized R410a compressors being 'more reliable' - since they have more internal parts, engineering RSA dictates they will be less reliable - what happens in the real world remains to be seen.

    What sticks in my claw is that; 'OEM's choice to use R410a was based purely on manufacturing cost, higher enthalpy + higher pressures' - we can build smaller equipment'..... No consideration for the fact that R410a loses cooling capacity above 95 degrees ambient, or long-term reliability or anything else.... just manufacturing cost.

  18. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Houston,Tx.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozydeco View Post
    R410a loses cooling capacity above 95 degrees ambient.
    Does 407C have any capacity loss compared to 410A?
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". -Vernon Law-

    "Skilled Labor Isn't Cheap, Cheap Labor Isn't Skilled" - Unknown


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