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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    216

    Eden Pure space heater vs my new Trane system, which one is more efficient and why?

    I am in the process of purchasing a new heat pump. Thanks to the help of this forum, it is going to be a 2 ton Trane XL15i and a 2.5 ton variable speed air handler with a 7.5kw heat strip.
    I am borrowing my parent's Eden Pure 1500w space heater. They claim it will heat 1000sqft. The thing is pretty darn good. My indoor temp was 60 degrees and I put this thing on and in 20 minutes it was 63 degrees in here with an outdoor temp of only 24 degrees.
    It got me thinking. Would this thing be more efficient than firing up my HP and air handler?
    I asked my brother and we are both stumped as to why using the heat strip in the air handler is less efficient than using the HP to warm the house. We were thinking that just heating with the heat strip sounds like it would be more efficient than firing up the outside condensing unit. Can you explain why a HP is more efficient than the heat strip at any temp. You have to run the outside pump and fan as opposed to just the heat strip in the air handler, correct?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,946
    With electric resistance heat, you are getting a direct 1 to 1 ratio from input to output.

    With a properly installed heat pump, you can better that by quite a lot, getting 3 to 1 or better.

    I'm sure someone else can explain it better than I can.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Arizona
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    4,423
    Make your expertise uniquely valuable.

    Make your influence uniquely far-reaching.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,902
    Eden pure $$$

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Columbia, MD
    Posts
    4,483
    thats good info in post #7.

    i pulled this off tranes website
    - it takes 2 KW to produce 23,400 btus of heat an hour from a heat pump
    - a 2 KW electric heater would put out 6820 btus of heat an hour
    the heat pump produces more btu/hr at a lower electrical rate

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    5,348
    Quote Originally Posted by clydesdale View Post
    I am in the process of purchasing a new heat pump. Thanks to the help of this forum, it is going to be a 2 ton Trane XL15i and a 2.5 ton variable speed air handler with a 7.5kw heat strip.
    I am borrowing my parent's Eden Pure 1500w space heater. They claim it will heat 1000sqft. The thing is pretty darn good. My indoor temp was 60 degrees and I put this thing on and in 20 minutes it was 63 degrees in here with an outdoor temp of only 24 degrees.
    It got me thinking. Would this thing be more efficient than firing up my HP and air handler?
    I asked my brother and we are both stumped as to why using the heat strip in the air handler is less efficient than using the HP to warm the house. We were thinking that just heating with the heat strip sounds like it would be more efficient than firing up the outside condensing unit. Can you explain why a HP is more efficient than the heat strip at any temp. You have to run the outside pump and fan as opposed to just the heat strip in the air handler, correct?
    It's called COP. Coefficient of preformance (I think).
    If it's "electric heat", it's 1:1. I don't care if it's some oil filled radiator that plugs into the wall. It's 1:1. All your doing, is passing current through a small wire. The wire gets hot from all the electric. Your "generating" heat.

    With a heat pump, we're not generating heat (atleast not mostly). We're just "moving" heat. Moving it from the outside, to the inside. Since we're not actually generating heat, just moving it, our COP goes up. Naturally, when it's hot outside, it's easier to suck that heat out of the air outside. When it's cold, it's harder, and thus the COP goes down. There is a point, when it's so cold out, that it's more efficient to generate heat, than to attempt to move it.

    One of the reasons a eden pure may "seem" more efficient, is because of duct leakage. Or, if may feel hotter due to a lower airflow across it's elements.

    Don't believe the hype of any "electric" heating. If it generates heat, and plugs into a wall as the sole "fuel", it's a 1:1 ratio.
    The amish might be a godly people, but they don't have godly powers.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,240
    Good post by Vegas.

    Eden Pure no different than the strip heat used by a HP system.

    3.4 BTUs for each rated watt.

    So a Gen 4 1000 Eden Pure Mdl is rated at 1483 watts.

    Do the multiplication here and that equals 5042 BTUs of strip heat.

    And this is mighty expensive heat when you take into consideration the purchase cost of the Eden Pure.

    At the end of the day, Eden Pure is more about TV marketing than economic heating appliance.

    Spot heat only. You would need 3-4 models of the EdeN Pure to heat your condo assuming your electric grid could handle that load capacity. You wouldn't freeze but would you be comfortable? And of course no AC for summer use.
    And then your electric bill has not been discussed.

    Your new Trane system will be less expensive to operate than multiple Eden Pure systems.

    IMO
    Last edited by tigerdunes; 12-19-2011 at 08:10 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    But come on, it's radiant heat... and it has a pretty wood cabinet made by real Amish folks. Everyone know the Amish are completely honest so it must be as good as the advertising.

    I will admit, radiant heat can make you feel more comfortable at a lower temperature, but it still won't overcome being 1/2-1/3 as effcient as a heat pump... and in terms of operating cost 4-6X more expensive than a gas furnace to operate.

    OTOH, I installed a direct vent fireplace in our last home. TONS of radant heat. Guess what, we kept the rest of the house cooler and our gas bills still went up. Ultimately the furnace was 80% efficient and it was probably 60-75% efficient depnding on the fresh air damper setting.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    216
    Thanks guys, very good info.

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