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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    25
    Hey all nOOb here. I'm try to educate myself as much as possible so I can choose a new system for my home. I have wanted to add a/c for a long time but now I'm finally able to afford it! I live in Idaho so a swamp cooler has been getting me by in the past but the hottest days of summer are just too much for the cooler.

    I have gotten several bids (i know don't post $$$) and I'm still a little unsure which way to go.

    I'm going to get a new gas furnace to replace my old American Standard furnace from 1979 and new air conditioning.

    The one contractor only installs Trane and the other only Goodman. I understand that the Goodman is a less expensive brand so I am factoring that into his bid. I also understand that the KEY is the quality and expertise of the installer and any system that isn't properly installed will either fail early in its life, or not work the way it should.

    The Trane Dealer wants to install a XB10 10 SEER AC and a XR80 gas furnace.

    The Goodman dealer wants to install a 10 or 13 SEER and a 80% gas furnace both made by Goodman.

    I understand both of these are at the lower end of their product lines so is the budget Trane a better choice than the Goodman? I'm pretty familiar with Trane but never owned anything from Goodman. Should I pay a little more and get a better XR system from Trane?

    I guess my main concern is getting a system that's not reliable and long lasting. I'm willing to pay a little more and upgrade to something of better quality but I think the efficiency of these systems seem like they would be good enough for my current needs. Thanks for any insight you guys can provide and I'll try my best to use the search function to learn more myself.

    [Edited by bobb820 on 03-03-2006 at 04:03 PM]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    PA/DE area
    Posts
    1,535
    Where do you live???plans for home,stay or go??
    It's NOT the BRAND,it's the company that installs it!!!!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    PA/DE area
    Posts
    1,535
    If your staying,the Variable speed furnace would be nice.
    It's NOT the BRAND,it's the company that installs it!!!!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    25

    Time.....

    I'm not planning on moving anytime soon but, if I did, I would still probably be in my current home for 5 years at the very least. I live in Idaho and we get both temperature extremes here. It can get very cold in the winter and sizzling in the summer. My AS gas furnace works fairly well for the winter but it's almost 20 years old so I figured why not replace it now while I'm getting the AC installed.

    I just called the Trane contractor to ask about upgrading from the XB10 to a XR13 but it's a whole lot of money so I don't think I would see a return on that for a long time. I didn't know that going from 10 to 13 SEER was soooo expensive!!


  5. #5
    gto boy Guest
    I think that comfort wise,the XV80 would be a better investment over a/c SEER.13 is now the standard,we cannot even get 10 ,11.12,SEER unit anymore.

  6. #6
    10 seer Trane? I didn't know Trane had even made that low of rating in about 2 years now, Trane implamented the Higher Eff 2 years before it was code with the 12 cause originally the 12 was gonna be code than they changed to 13, I beleive the 13 seer Goodman would be a better bet than the 10 seer Trane as they probally are about the same price, and Yeah 13 seer is HIGH, everybody said about 30% more in cost, somebody lied, try about 45% more in cost




    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.”

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    996
    Why not go with Goodman 95% variable speed and a Goodman 13 Seer A/C. Prices for the 95% variable 2 stage are the lowest in the business and quality on the new equipment is as good as any in the market.
    "Go big or Go Home"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    25
    Originally posted by Black Adder
    Why not go with Goodman 95% variable speed and a Goodman 13 Seer A/C. Prices for the 95% variable 2 stage are the lowest in the business and quality on the new equipment is as good as any in the market.
    I could get the Goodman 95% variable and a 13 SEER A/C for not that much more than the 10 SEER and 80% in the Trane. I think I could also get a $150 tax credit for installing the Goodman 95% unit. I'm still a little unsure of the Goodman brand. It seems like it's either a love or hate relationship on this forum. I'm fairly confident with the installer so maybe I should give him a chance. I'm going to really think this thing through and take my time.

  9. #9

    Trane VS Goodman Easy Decision

    My advice is to buy the Trane XR or XV 90 furnace and have the AC added later instead of getting Goodman. But, you may get more competitive bids on a combined system.

    SAVING MONEY / SEER / AFUE
    HVAC investor says I'll spend over 2k in gas for my 80 afue furnace for 18 year default life of a furnace versus a 90 afue furnace (even after factoring higher cost of a 90 afue furnace) with a one dollar per therm gas rate in Denver.

    The free HVAC investor software (search within http://www.energystar.gov) might tell you the 90 afue and/or Variable blower would be cheaper. Click the (utility, electric), (utility, gas), (options, heating regions) to adapt to your location. Of course, update the furnace/AC size and dealer installed costs as needed. I found it better running the AC calc, write down the results (will it print them?) then redo for heat (select "No upgrade" pulldown option for whichever analysis you are NOT doing).

    The Federal Register said the US Department of Energy estimates as 13 seer becomes the norm, the price increase might be reasonable. I thought about using HVAC investor to see if a heat pump (HP) would be economical. However, it doesn't consider counterproductivity of a setback thermostat with HP (imagine the math !)


    VARIABLE SPEED
    I was considering XB80 versus XB90. The saleslady said the variable speed fan uses 1/5th electricity & suggested the XV80 as a compromise. I bought based on financial savings of the VS. But, the best advantage for me was no more duct hammering (clunk when fan goes on/off). The fan is quieter. Less dust/dirt is drawn into the furnace.


    TRANE QUALITY
    See Consumer Reports - American Standard/Trane has fewer repairs. Read more about Goodman on HVAC Talk (LOTS!). The HVAC industry has a lot of knowledge - for example why they recommend certain products/installs (double walled venting reduces condensation). At one time (still?) the XB80 had silicon carbide ignitor; XV80 has silicon nitride (better). HVAC Talk may have info on 80vs90 afue durability.

    My own life history with HVAC suggested Trane: One HVAC Talk article mentioned GE weathertron heat pumps (now Trane) lasting 20 years. We had one (in VA) with no problems (but only lived there '81-85). The next house's '85 Carrier heat pump compressor failed after four years ('85-89) also in VA. My first apartment (Denver) had an '87 Trane furnace (electronic spark ignition - MUCH louder than my new XV80 ignitor) and AC. The '87 gas valve had to be replaced in '98. The apartments did NO preventive maint on furnaces (except filters). The '87 Trane AC had no problems.

    My house in Denver had an '84 Amana 75,000 BTU Amana (Goodman and Amana are owned by the same company). The '84 Amana furnace developed a gas leak in late 2004. I have a very sensitive nose. In 2003, the home inspector's equipment showed acceptable gas & carbon monoxide; he was unsure if the heat exchanger had a crack.

    SIZING
    I called the 800 Amana customer service and they "guessed" the old furnace was 60 afue based on model & year. I didn't know about the HVAC Calc software or Manual J. I estimated a new 60,000 btu 80 afue would be comparable capacity to the old 75,000 btu with 60 afue. Feb 2006 overnight outdoor temp -11. Indoor temp was 71 at 11pm then 65 by 5am (furnace ran nonstop). Lesson: spend the small sum on the HVAC calc trial version and take the TIME to input all the info. Many HVAC dealers DONT. I was in a rush for a furnace; I don't blame anyone for not doing a load calc. My furnace does maintain with 5 degrees outside. Denver's average winter low is 17. I shopped at 1 Bryant dealer, 1 Trane (only) dealer, and bought from a combination Goodman/Trane dealer. I got the XV80 for the same price the other dealers quoted for an XB80/basic Bryant.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    546
    Ever considered a duel fuel system?
    rick

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Ft.Worth,Tx
    Posts
    4,584

    Thumbs up Trane/American Standard

    I would agree with most on here, stick with Trane and leave Goodman alone..

    If you want cheap then buy Goodman.
    If you want something that will last buy Trane.

    That's my opinion. <<<Aircooled>>>
    Oh yea,thanks heybob

    [Edited by aircooled53 on 03-04-2006 at 09:35 AM]
    "Everyday above ground, is a good day".
    "But everyday that you have made a difference in someones life, may insure you stay above ground a little longer".<aircooled>

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,073

    Re: Trane/American Standard

    Originally posted by aircooled53
    I would agree with most on here, stick with Trane and leave Goodman alone..

    If you want cheap then buy Goodman.
    If you want something that will last buy Trane.

    That's my opinion. <<<Aircooled>>>
    So with that said you would agree with the old saying that you still get what you pay for.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,962
    Originally posted by bobb820
    Originally posted by Black Adder
    Why not go with Goodman 95% variable speed and a Goodman 13 Seer A/C. Prices for the 95% variable 2 stage are the lowest in the business and quality on the new equipment is as good as any in the market.
    I could get the Goodman 95% variable and a 13 SEER A/C for not that much more than the 10 SEER and 80% in the Trane. I think I could also get a $150 tax credit for installing the Goodman 95% unit. I'm still a little unsure of the Goodman brand. It seems like it's either a love or hate relationship on this forum. I'm fairly confident with the installer so maybe I should give him a chance. I'm going to really think this thing through and take my time.
    Even better; A Goodman 95% furnace with variable speed blower will give you a $200 tax credit and one of the best furnaces on the market today.

    Add a Goodman 14 SEER condensing unit to that with the properly matched coil and you will have a 15 SEER rated system that qualifies for an additional $300 tax credit.

    If you are getting better efficiency, better warranties and similar comfort features at a lower cost, why does it matter that it is also manufactured by the only company that only manufactures their equipment in the United States?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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