Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    I am replacing an older builder grade carrier HP with elect. BU.

    I have narrowed it down to a Trane 4 ton XL14i with 5 ton VS AH, Vision Pro 8000 Stat and a Carrier 4 ton 38YDB with 5 ton VS FE AH with Infinity Control. Both systems quoted with Aprilaire 2200 Media Filter. Carrier setup is roughly 14%higher. Will it ever pay itself off? And also what is the advantage of going with a bigger Air Handler?

    Same installer for either system. I am very comfortable with the company so it is all down to the equipment. I am hoping that I will be satisfied with either of these setups but am looking for suggestions to fine tune the whole deal. Humidity control isn't real high on the list but warm air out of the ducts in the winter is!! One hour north of Philly. Oh yeah trying to cut down on dust also.
    The bell and whistles aren't real high on the list either just long lasting heat and cool.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    962
    We can't discuss prices on this board. However your dealer should be able to help you with this information. When I give a quote I go over this with my customer. He can come up with the seasonal energy cost's for your area.

  3. #3
    not really looking for pricing info, just advice on how to make these choices better and whether there is any financial payback for the investment in operating costs for the Infinity.

    Thanks

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Newton, NJ
    Posts
    299
    The larger ah is simply to have a larger heat/cool transfer surface. The contractor most likely used this combo to achieve the desired seer/eer to qualify for a rebate as the VS blower can be adjusted for virtually any air flow. You are choosing between Trane and Carrier so either system will serve you well, but if you can get Trane for less then go for it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,151
    Hopefully you know you aren't comparing like products. The Carrier is a more sophisticated system and should cost more. Will it pay for itself in energy savings? The Carrier gets 14.5 SEER and 9.0 HSPF. I didn't see the Trane matched with a 5 ton air handler but with a 4 ton R410a AH, it gets 14.0 and 8.45 so just a hair under the Carrier. My guess is you won't see a big economic savings for the Carrier extra. Will you get comfort savings with the 2 stage compressor and better control? You'll have to decide! If you are into bells & whistles, definitely

    Larger AH gives a schoch higher efficiency. Important thing is for dealer to set the airflow to 4 tons.

    And be sure to get an extended warranty with either system. Stuff today is troublesome

  6. #6
    Installer included 10 yr parts and labor on either system. I read about some problems with the 38YDB not shifting into high speed, maybe not a concern any longer? Will the Carrier give me warmer air out of the ducts better from having the two stage comp?


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,286

    Thumbs up Life Cycle Costs

    Originally posted by s76helipilot
    I have narrowed it down to a Trane 4 ton XL14i with 5 ton VS AH, Vision Pro 8000 Stat and a Carrier 4 ton 38YDB with 5 ton VS FE AH with Infinity Control. Both systems quoted with Aprilaire 2200 Media Filter.

    I am hoping that I will be satisfied with either of these setups but am looking for suggestions to fine tune the whole deal.

    ... One hour north of Philly.
    Buy a Trane XL16i heat pump in Late April or May
    with rebate for higher SEER at ~$ 900.
    You will much further ahead.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    135
    Carrier will give tighter and better control/comfort
    Trane is less $$$
    Whats more important to you?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,042
    This isn't an apples to apples comparison. The indoor units are similar, but you're looking at a two-speed outdoor unit on the Carrier and a single speed in the Trane.

    The Infinity system is a leap forward in control systems, which does get you bells and whistles that nobody else can quite match right now. While both setups are very nice and will beat the pants off of a builder grade system in every regard, the Carrier should have a slight edge in comfort. The primary reason I say that is that the Carrier system, if properly configured with an "identifying" heat strip, has direct control of three stages of resistance heat from the thermostat. Letting the wattage be controlled by temperature demand directly gives you the opportunity to run a small heating element for long periods when you just need a little auxiliary heat, instead of cycling a big heating element on and off frequently. That gets you a steady, warm discharge instead of (minor exaggeration here) alternating between hot and drafty. It also adjusts the blower's speed based on outdoor temperature, running slower when the heat pump's output is less so that discharge temperatures don't get down to where they feel drafty, even when no auxiliary heat is running.

    The Infinity system also has an edge on humidity control in mild weather and hot weather. Again, the Trane is still a cut above most, but the Infinity will have an edge on it, especially in mild weather.

    Both are proven systems, so I wouldn't worry about reliability to speak of. Both use a fair number of very expensive parts, though, so a long warranty is reassuring to have. Both are technically elaborate, so make sure that your contractor is really up to snuff on high-end equipment before you sign on the dotted line. Many firms are happy to sell you a high end system like these, but do the vast majority of their work in more basic stuff, and may not be as trained or experienced in the high end equipment as you might imagine.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Zelienople, Pa
    Posts
    2,965

    Re: Life Cycle Costs

    Originally posted by dan sw fl
    Originally posted by s76helipilot
    I have narrowed it down to a Trane 4 ton XL14i with 5 ton VS AH, Vision Pro 8000 Stat and a Carrier 4 ton 38YDB with 5 ton VS FE AH with Infinity Control. Both systems quoted with Aprilaire 2200 Media Filter.

    I am hoping that I will be satisfied with either of these setups but am looking for suggestions to fine tune the whole deal.

    ... One hour north of Philly.
    Buy a Trane XL16i heat pump in Late April or May
    with rebate for higher SEER at ~$ 900.
    You will much further ahead.
    I was already informed that the spring program is a 10 year p&l, and not the cash rebate this year...

  11. #11
    trane doe not have the technology that carrier has as far as humidity control or the infinity control. the infinity system will do tons more than the trane. also the carrier system is has a 2 speed compressor and the fe air handler has true filter detection, it is not timed it uses static pressure so when it says filter is dirty its dirty.
    now march 1 through may 31 2006 carrier is offering 1000.00 rebate on that systems so ask your contractor.
    about trane, probably the best built machine you can buy but they nore anyone else has the technology that carrier has.

    by the way i sell both and like both so any decision you make will be a good one.

  12. #12
    gto boy Guest
    We sell both, and Carrier for humidity around PHILLY is the way to go.10 years P&L a small price to pay for no surprizes.

  13. #13

    Thumbs up

    Originally posted by wyounger
    This isn't an apples to apples comparison. The indoor units are similar, but you're looking at a two-speed outdoor unit on the Carrier and a single speed in the Trane.

    The Infinity system is a leap forward in control systems, which does get you bells and whistles that nobody else can quite match right now. While both setups are very nice and will beat the pants off of a builder grade system in every regard, the Carrier should have a slight edge in comfort. The primary reason I say that is that the Carrier system, if properly configured with an "identifying" heat strip, has direct control of three stages of resistance heat from the thermostat. Letting the wattage be controlled by temperature demand directly gives you the opportunity to run a small heating element for long periods when you just need a little auxiliary heat, instead of cycling a big heating element on and off frequently. That gets you a steady, warm discharge instead of (minor exaggeration here) alternating between hot and drafty. It also adjusts the blower's speed based on outdoor temperature, running slower when the heat pump's output is less so that discharge temperatures don't get down to where they feel drafty, even when no auxiliary heat is running.

    The Infinity system also has an edge on humidity control in mild weather and hot weather. Again, the Trane is still a cut above most, but the Infinity will have an edge on it, especially in mild weather.

    Both are proven systems, so I wouldn't worry about reliability to speak of. Both use a fair number of very expensive parts, though, so a long warranty is reassuring to have. Both are technically elaborate, so make sure that your contractor is really up to snuff on high-end equipment before you sign on the dotted line. Many firms are happy to sell you a high end system like these, but do the vast majority of their work in more basic stuff, and may not be as trained or experienced in the high end equipment as you might imagine.
    This sounds like it might be what sways me. I called my contractor and he told me that it is a different option for that heat bank. I like the idea that it slows the fan speed for lower outdoor temps and runs a smaller strip more evenly than a bigger strip that cycles. I am probably anal but I dont understand how anybody spends this much money without getting all the details. This forum has been a great resource for info. Thanks to all.

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