You're right. They are terrible misfits in our otherwise stable industry
After going to a class on these mod furnaces, my company and I can't figure out why any one would want to buy one.
First off, the tech rep said that there is no gas savings with the modulating furnace over a standard 90% furnace, the only savings is in electic unless you use a 2 stage t-stat over a modulating t-stat. (Then what good is a modulating furnace?).
Second, the problem with the furnace taking almost a hour to go from 40% to 100%. He said this is a real problem for people that just want to take the chill off. It won't do it unless you know the work around as he put it.
So, what is it with this high price furnace? I don't see it. Some one please explain.
You're right. They are terrible misfits in our otherwise stable industry
Training is important!
Practical Training is a must!
The 90+ mod is for ultimate comfort, not energy savings.
You're right, don't make a whole lot of sense when we are
trying to conserve energy. But you know how them wealthy
people are. Comfort is a must.
They are un-paralled in that market.
Regards......
Some of that ain'ta makin' sense.
None of the high end furnaces save gas over their single stage counterparts. They are for comfort. The ECM on any of them provides electrical savings regardless of stat used. Any of them will have dehumidify capability too.
An hour to go from 40% to 100%? Never heard such a thing. Maybe one of the Rheem gurus can clarify that one. I know I've never had any complaints at all about their heating. Nor have I experienced an hour to full fire when I've been working on them.
Hey, if you don't want the comfort benefits of the Mod, Infinity/Evolution or any other high end furnace, there are plenty of 90+ single stagers to choose from.
QUOTE]Originally posted by RoBoTeq
You're right. They are terrible misfits in our otherwise stable industry [/QUOTE]
Robin, your not "bashing" are you? Would you respond the same if it were a Jani question?
The savings are different to your location.
Here on this site, heating is the determining factor to knowledge. Most members are snowbirds. I have never, being in S TX, and probably will never offer a 90+ furnace, much less a mod. And the dealers sell very little of them also. Heating in TX is minimal, much like Robins ojt experience. JK dude, anyway. You do what fits your income level and need. Never let a smooth talking salesman make you buy a furnace, or a/c you don't need.
You said it. "comfort" Can we all agree that is the main goal to provide to a customer? Not the bottom line? Than how can a line offer max with very little quality or long standing results, be in the same market as the tranes, ruuds and carriers? If your in that market, say so. It's o.k. just be honest. Just dont think consumers will believe your even keel with the rest just because your "new brochuers" are shiny"Originally posted by gonefishing
The 90+ mod is for ultimate comfort, not energy savings.
You're right, don't make a whole lot of sense when we are
trying to conserve energy. But you know how them wealthy
people are. Comfort is a must.
They are un-paralled in that market.
Regards......
ikey; if you knew me just a little bit better or did just a little bit of homework you would understand the irony of my post.
Anyone who knows me here knows that I was not bashing the Rheem/Ruud mod furnace....even if it is a mutant.
Training is important!
Practical Training is a must!
Originally posted by RoBoTeq
ikey; if you knew me just a little bit better or did just a little bit of homework you would understand the irony of my post.
Anyone who knows me here knows that I was not bashing the Rheem/Ruud mod furnace....even if it is a mutant.
Yes even a mean as he has been to me today
he was not doing any bashing. you might need to get to know some of us a tad better and you will understand, and as hard as this is to say I don't know that I have ever seen him bash any brand that did not deserve it.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards" ~ Vernon Law
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." ~ John Wooden
"When the teachers become unteachable we're all in trouble" ~ Mr. Bill
"Remember "Pro" is only a name, it's not always a mindset determined to do everything correctly" ~ Mr. Bill
sorry Robin, I guess I'm not used to your backhanded humor. Is that what your doing when you defend the mutant brands? Oh, I finally got my "brown" top panel for my cust. that I requested 12/22, from my dist. and that I had to call to find out if it was in. And while I was there some "professional" contractors were replacing the blower wheel they received in brown paper wrap, while they had the trunk of their camero open. In front of the dist. Not bashing, but the brand didn't have any ties to retail service. Any guess'?Originally posted by RoBoTeq
ikey; if you knew me just a little bit better or did just a little bit of homework you would understand the irony of my post.
Anyone who knows me here knows that I was not bashing the Rheem/Ruud mod furnace....even if it is a mutant.
These Modulating furnace are for COMFORT.
13 stages to match your heat lost in your home.. Bald has a good chart to show it.. Also it advoids the cycling on and off, just a nice steady soft heat out of the vents.
Hey ikea; just remember; "every one who says Goodman is no good, Don't know how to install a system properly".
And the reason the Rheem/Ruud mod is a misfit is because I don't have anything to compete with it. And the reason it is a mutant is because there is no other furnace quite like it.
BUT....it still does not qualify for the DOE tax credit
Training is important!
Practical Training is a must!
Robin thats 150 bucks.... So your going to have a inferior product installed just so you can get 150 back on your taxes? Come on now. Just for fun, how many a/c systems do you have that qualify for the much higher 300 rebate?
Clearly the OP works for a company who is a price leader (lol) and doesnt sell comfort systems. And in this case, it is not for them. The market for companies like that probably will not support it either. To say its a rich mans furnace is a stretch though. It doesnt cost any more than an infinity.
Remember, There are 3 chevy dealers for every 1 cadillac.
Im a RUUD dealer and RUUD will tell you up front that this furnace is not to bump up the efficiency and they recommend telling the customer this when explaining this furnace. If you use the mod. thermostat for this furnace you have better control. If you want to turn the heat up quikly it will vamp up to the needed capacity. The ideal furnace is one that is properly sized to keep running but to keep up with the set point. This furnace gives you that. As a bonus, this furnace is as quit as it gets. You dont have to be rich to have more comfort.
Could it be safe to say you did not get that statement from a woman?Originally posted by roesslerhw
You dont have to be rich to have more comfort.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards" ~ Vernon Law
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." ~ John Wooden
"When the teachers become unteachable we're all in trouble" ~ Mr. Bill
"Remember "Pro" is only a name, it's not always a mindset determined to do everything correctly" ~ Mr. Bill
That is a $200 tax credit because of the variable speed. Just what makes a more efficient furnace "inferior"?Originally posted by docholiday
Robin thats 150 bucks.... So your going to have a inferior product installed just so you can get 150 back on your taxes? Come on now. Just for fun, how many a/c systems do you have that qualify for the much higher 300 rebate?
Just for fun, 115 ARI rated systems by Goodman/Amana are eligible for the $300 tax credit as well. Goodman/Amana is the only manufacturer that has a full line of systems that qualify for up to $500 tax credits.
Training is important!
Practical Training is a must!
We sell alot of the Evolution Systems. Some in new homes and some replacements. But yes, we do sell comfort systems. From what I see, the Evolution System is for comfort and energy savings. I installed one for my brother-in-law with a 13seer 410a a/c. He has never been more comortable, and his gas bill is a little more than 1/2 what it use to be.Clearly the OP works for a company who is a price leader (lol) and doesnt sell comfort systems. And in this case, it is not for them. The market for companies like that probably will not support it either. To say its a rich mans furnace is a stretch though. It doesnt cost any more than an infinity.
Remember, There are 3 chevy dealers for every 1 cadillac.
Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Originally posted by docholiday
Robin thats 150 bucks.... So your going to have a inferior product installed just so you can get 150 back on your taxes? Come on now. Just for fun, how many a/c systems do you have that qualify for the much higher 300 rebate?
Rebate, rebate, he is stressing quality Robin, not "qualify for rebates". And you will need the rebate to pay the labor cost on that stuff. You know ARI rates efficiency, they don't care about longevity, quietness, or any other factor. Oh, by the way Robin, while I was at the Goodman dealer today exchanging a 2 yr old severely cracked top panel on a condenser, I did notice the new 13 condensers. I must say, they are much improved.
That is a $200 tax credit because of the variable speed. Just what makes a more efficient furnace "inferior"?
Just for fun, 115 ARI rated systems by Goodman/Amana are eligible for the $300 tax credit as well. Goodman/Amana is the only manufacturer that has a full line of systems that qualify for up to $500 tax credits.
I don't know how my post was mixed in with the previous quote. Oh, is it true that Amana is using Goods vs a/h's on their systems? I wouldn't know, but heard from an Amana dealer while we were in Tyler at the plant tour.
Goodman and Amana outdoor units share Corporate air handlers and coils. The new Corporate air handlers did evolve from the Goodman AR series which I think were better units then the Amana one piece air handlers were. I do miss the BCC modular though. The new Corporate modulars are basically the blower only sections of the Corporate air handlers. Nice equipment all.
You guys who want to dwell on the past keep on doing so, but Goodman is still the fastest growing HVAC manufacturer in the industry and has become a quality competing brand. If you don't like it, don't sell it. There are plenty of other contractors that will be happy to take the jobs from you.
Training is important!
Practical Training is a must!
You cannot compare anything on the market to the comfort advantages of the Rheem/Ruud mod because no other furnace on the market has the same technology.Originally posted by jid1877
We sell alot of the Evolution Systems. Some in new homes and some replacements. But yes, we do sell comfort systems. From what I see, the Evolution System is for comfort and energy savings. I installed one for my brother-in-law with a 13seer 410a a/c. He has never been more comortable, and his gas bill is a little more than 1/2 what it use to be.Clearly the OP works for a company who is a price leader (lol) and doesnt sell comfort systems. And in this case, it is not for them. The market for companies like that probably will not support it either. To say its a rich mans furnace is a stretch though. It doesnt cost any more than an infinity.
Remember, There are 3 chevy dealers for every 1 cadillac.
The mod is designed to operate nearly 100% of the time by putting out just enough heat to satisfy the current loss of the home. Without putting in a lot of "no gain" controls, Rheem has designed a nicely controlled furnace that is near perfect in its functioning. There simply is no way any Carrier (or any other brand) can compete with the comfort capabilities of the Rheem/Ruud mod.
Now, that said, not all applications are going to benefit enough to make the mod worthwhile or even noticeably better.
Training is important!
Practical Training is a must!