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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,947
    Originally posted by roesslerhw
    You dont have to be rich to have more comfort.
    Could it be safe to say you did not get that statement from a woman?
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

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  2. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,943
    Originally posted by docholiday
    Robin thats 150 bucks.... So your going to have a inferior product installed just so you can get 150 back on your taxes? Come on now. Just for fun, how many a/c systems do you have that qualify for the much higher 300 rebate?

    That is a $200 tax credit because of the variable speed. Just what makes a more efficient furnace "inferior"?

    Just for fun, 115 ARI rated systems by Goodman/Amana are eligible for the $300 tax credit as well. Goodman/Amana is the only manufacturer that has a full line of systems that qualify for up to $500 tax credits.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Linn Creek, Mo
    Posts
    399
    Clearly the OP works for a company who is a price leader (lol) and doesnt sell comfort systems. And in this case, it is not for them. The market for companies like that probably will not support it either. To say its a rich mans furnace is a stretch though. It doesnt cost any more than an infinity.

    Remember, There are 3 chevy dealers for every 1 cadillac.
    We sell alot of the Evolution Systems. Some in new homes and some replacements. But yes, we do sell comfort systems. From what I see, the Evolution System is for comfort and energy savings. I installed one for my brother-in-law with a 13seer 410a a/c. He has never been more comortable, and his gas bill is a little more than 1/2 what it use to be.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    894
    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    Originally posted by docholiday
    Robin thats 150 bucks.... So your going to have a inferior product installed just so you can get 150 back on your taxes? Come on now. Just for fun, how many a/c systems do you have that qualify for the much higher 300 rebate?


    Rebate, rebate, he is stressing quality Robin, not "qualify for rebates". And you will need the rebate to pay the labor cost on that stuff. You know ARI rates efficiency, they don't care about longevity, quietness, or any other factor. Oh, by the way Robin, while I was at the Goodman dealer today exchanging a 2 yr old severely cracked top panel on a condenser, I did notice the new 13 condensers. I must say, they are much improved.

    That is a $200 tax credit because of the variable speed. Just what makes a more efficient furnace "inferior"?

    Just for fun, 115 ARI rated systems by Goodman/Amana are eligible for the $300 tax credit as well. Goodman/Amana is the only manufacturer that has a full line of systems that qualify for up to $500 tax credits.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    894
    I don't know how my post was mixed in with the previous quote. Oh, is it true that Amana is using Goods vs a/h's on their systems? I wouldn't know, but heard from an Amana dealer while we were in Tyler at the plant tour.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,943
    Goodman and Amana outdoor units share Corporate air handlers and coils. The new Corporate air handlers did evolve from the Goodman AR series which I think were better units then the Amana one piece air handlers were. I do miss the BCC modular though. The new Corporate modulars are basically the blower only sections of the Corporate air handlers. Nice equipment all.

    You guys who want to dwell on the past keep on doing so, but Goodman is still the fastest growing HVAC manufacturer in the industry and has become a quality competing brand. If you don't like it, don't sell it. There are plenty of other contractors that will be happy to take the jobs from you.

    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,943
    Originally posted by jid1877
    Clearly the OP works for a company who is a price leader (lol) and doesnt sell comfort systems. And in this case, it is not for them. The market for companies like that probably will not support it either. To say its a rich mans furnace is a stretch though. It doesnt cost any more than an infinity.

    Remember, There are 3 chevy dealers for every 1 cadillac.
    We sell alot of the Evolution Systems. Some in new homes and some replacements. But yes, we do sell comfort systems. From what I see, the Evolution System is for comfort and energy savings. I installed one for my brother-in-law with a 13seer 410a a/c. He has never been more comortable, and his gas bill is a little more than 1/2 what it use to be.
    You cannot compare anything on the market to the comfort advantages of the Rheem/Ruud mod because no other furnace on the market has the same technology.

    The mod is designed to operate nearly 100% of the time by putting out just enough heat to satisfy the current loss of the home. Without putting in a lot of "no gain" controls, Rheem has designed a nicely controlled furnace that is near perfect in its functioning. There simply is no way any Carrier (or any other brand) can compete with the comfort capabilities of the Rheem/Ruud mod.

    Now, that said, not all applications are going to benefit enough to make the mod worthwhile or even noticeably better.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Originally posted by jid1877

    From what I see, the Evolution System is for comfort and energy savings. I installed one for my brother-in-law with a 13seer 410a a/c. He has never been more comortable, and his gas bill is a little more than 1/2 what it use to be.
    Are you suggesting, that someone at Carrier or Bryant claims that the infinity control strategy makes the furnace more efficient? The efficiency rating you see is a function of input versus output regarding the gas. The control has no bearing on that at all. IF it is rated higher, it would be because the un-infinity is slightly derated in an effort to imply there is also an energy savings involved by upgrading.

    What your tech rep told you in the mod class is, that you need to be careful about presenting it as a higher efficiency furnace than the standard one. The reason he said that is because many people, even people in the industry, cannot seperate the two terms. It's no less efficient, Its just not more. The implication is that you sell it as a comfort system.

    Had he (your brother in law) installed the Mod, he would be experiencing yet another level of comfort and still had the reduced bills. What he has is a 2 stage furnace with 2 adjustable CFM outputs. The mod has 13 stages and 13 CFM outputs and calibrates itself on power-up to deal with various duct systems. The temperature coming out of the duct is the same at 40% as it is at 100%.

    Really, it's like skydiving, you really dont give it any justice by trying to explain it. You have to experience it to understand.... as the old syaing goes... If you think riding in a plane is flying, then you must think riding in a boat is swimming. You have to step out of the plane or boat to experience the element.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    11
    I am a homeowner, not a professional. In my opinion the cost for a premium heating system is in no way a "rich man's" price. Assuming for the sake of argument $10,000 as the cost of a good furnace, what kind of a car do you get for that amount? A rich man pays $10,000 for granite countertops in his kitchen and $60,000 for his car. HVAC people should start thinking the price of a premium furnace is a basic necessity, not a rich man's luxury.

    Clair

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    894
    Originally posted by nielso
    I am a homeowner, not a professional. In my opinion the cost for a premium heating system is in no way a "rich man's" price. Assuming for the sake of argument $10,000 as the cost of a good furnace, what kind of a car do you get for that amount? A rich man pays $10,000 for granite countertops in his kitchen and $60,000 for his car. HVAC people should start thinking the price of a premium furnace is a basic necessity, not a rich man's luxury.

    Clair
    How embarrased we should be!! A home owner knows more about the difference than most hvacers. She is totally correct, we do not price our work according to our value. We must be plumbers, carpenters, electricians, salesman and so forth. It is not just about turning wrenches. We are worth alot more and should charge accordingly. Now if we could get us all to understand that, then there would be less bottom feeding.

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