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  1. #1
    Hello all, Been reading and am really impressed so here it goes.

    My old H/P is dead, house loaded at 4 ton in SE Pennsylvania, utility is PECO. Elect. BU. I want VS Air handler and can't decide between
    1. Carrier 38ydb w FE air handler & Infinity control.
    2. Trane xl14i
    3. Trane xl16i

    all three R410a.

    Carrier and xl16i about same $ and 14i a couple hundred less. My dilemma is 14i is not scroll, and Aluminum vs copper coils. Also is a programmable stat a necessity?
    My old system was marginal at best so I am interested in better comfort and equipment longevity.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    1,874
    I'm not big on Carrier, to much like Byrant.
    Don't anything about Trane, haven't touched on in several yrs.

    But the Infinity control is a good system.
    Go with Scroll.

    And then get a quality company who will service it when you need them most.
    If you try to fail, and succeed.
    Which have you done ?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,429
    The Infinity is not a scroll. The 14i in a 4 ton sure should be. I'll check and advise if I find otherwise.

    The Infinity if used with the Infinity control will do much more than the Trane with standard thermostat if that matters to you.

    I have heard issues with the 16i. It is 67% on low while the blower drops to 80% on low. That extra air means cooler discharge temps in heating and less humidity removal in cooling.

    I wouldn't worry about the coils. Trane's Spine Fin has been proven over 45+ years. I'm not a fan of setting back a heat pump, especially when it is cooler out. Sure can set back the cooling in the summer for some savings.

  4. #4
    Originally posted by BaldLoonie
    The Infinity is not a scroll. The 14i in a 4 ton sure should be. I'll check and advise if I find otherwise.

    The Infinity if used with the Infinity control will do much more than the Trane with standard thermostat if that matters to you.

    I have heard issues with the 16i. It is 67% on low while the blower drops to 80% on low. That extra air means cooler discharge temps in heating and less humidity removal in cooling.

    I wouldn't worry about the coils. Trane's Spine Fin has been proven over 45+ years. I'm not a fan of setting back a heat pump, especially when it is cooler out. Sure can set back the cooling in the summer for some savings.
    Well I dont know how I missed that but thanks. I thought the 38YDB was a scroll. The xl14I is a climatuff compressor which I think is a recip. Does it really matter? and if so who makes a good one?

  5. #5
    trane nor anyone else can match carriers technology.
    the infinity control will do alot, it has the same logic as their larger sytems controls have.
    also carriers systems will use a superdehumidification mode which will slow the fan speed down and lower the evap temp to remove excess moisture, trane lennox lowers the setpoint temp not the fan.
    you can use the thermidistat instead of the infinity control and thats better than any other stat that anyone else is going to have also. not as nice as infinity control though.

    now i like trane but no one i mean no one has the technology carrier has.

  6. #6
    Go with whatever has a scroll.
    That old Climatuff design, while reliable and efficient, has been outpaced by the scroll esp in a heat pump application. There is a big difference in the output in the two technologies, the scroll being better by several degrees if not more.

  7. #7
    yea any ol condenser with a scroll. heck ducane go for it bubba

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    105
    Last I knew the 38YDB's were no longer available and they were gearing up to bring its replacements out.

    I believe the new 25HNA9 is basically a 38YDB replacement with a 2 sp scroll.

    Put it with the FE fan coil and the Infinity control and you have the Cadillac of the industry.

  9. #9
    I know specific pricing is against the forum rules but any idea how much more expensive the 25HNA9 might be over the 38YDB? and when exactly i might be able to get one?

    [Edited by s76helipilot on 02-20-2006 at 11:11 PM]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,429
    From what I see, Carrier will have 2 Infinity units out. The top is the 2 stage scroll and they will have a slightly lower efficiency model that is the current TS technology.

    The 4 ton XL14i is a Trane scroll, I checked. They use the Climatuff name for both recip & scroll.

    Trane air handlers have the capability of dehumidification on demand to lower the blower speed if desired. The Vision Pro won't do it but other controls, like the W-R 1F95-391 or the Climatouch will.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,042
    Don't worry about equipment design. This is like arguing over whether BMW or Mercedes makes better pistons for their engines. They're both as good as they need to be, and other stuff will matter more in practice.

    For a heat pump I will always go for the Infinity system because of the advantages of the controls. The system gets direct control over a three-stage heat strip (the thermostat picks what wattage it needs, instead of just cycling a big heat strip on and off). It also reduces blower speed while heating at ambient temps under 40 degrees. Both features give them much better control to ensure that discharge temperatures stay warm enough to not feel drafty. Carrier also has a slight edge on dehumidification; it adjusts blower speed on the fly to get the right balance of cooling and dehumidification. Trane can accept a call for dehumidification and reduce blower speed in response, but it's an on-or-off kind of thing. Both work, but the Carrier is a bit better.

    Ignoring the controls, frankly I prefer the Trane outdoor units. The coils are really well made, and that big plastic hat they put on the top of all their nice equipment does a really good job of keeping leaves, sticks, etc. from falling in the top. They also use a defrost system that only defrosts when the need is actually sensed; Carrier's YDB still uses a fixed timer system to control when defrost cycles should occur. Carrier's newest outdoor units are going to use a demand defrost control, but it's not clear to me that you can actually obtain one of those yet.

    The Carrier outdoor unit also has internal self-diagnostics and can send diagnostic and trouble code information through to the indoor unit and thermostat. That seemed gimmicky to me at first, but the idea is growing on me. As an example, when my Infinity furnace had a problem, I called my contractor and gave him the trouble code information it displayed on the screen. It was enough to guide him as to what parts he needed to bring, which allowed for the repair to happen in a single service call, instead of one call to diagnose and another visit to come back with the right replacement part.

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