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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
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    7,281
    Quote Originally Posted by Dad View Post
    I don't want to add to the board beating here but it does bring to mind...

    What about reman goods sold? Reman cell phones, tv's, computers and alike. I understand most of them would be by an "authorized repair facility" but are you guys saying that unless they have the stamp "authorized repair facility" all gov/safety organization seals are denied?

    This is of course not the same type of safety issue as one my encounter with a furnace but the conundrum would be the same, yes?



    .
    Flame Safe Guard controls have been banned for years to be rebuilt in a commercial setting, see attached and it includes a letter from the UL regarding their position on the matter.

    When were talking about a "Furnace Board" we are fundamentally discussing much more then just a fan relay and some timing logic. We are also talking about the Flame Safe Guard control portion of the board.

    I am uncertain on the changes regarding the UL, the AGA and the Manufacturers when it comes to a residential appliance and their integral FSG, but would find it surprising as to if they actually support a rebuilt control.

    For those of us that dealt with the rebuilt FSG's when they were allowed could tell you all the horror stories that followed.

    I would love to know the official response from the AGA and UL on this matter.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #41
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    318

    Gettin UGLY

    Yep,
    I know in Michigan if you alter that board in any way, the home owners insurance will NOT cover you if they catch wind of what you did. I know this because I was out on a job last year and had to replace the board, the board and labor cost the customer about 400 - 500 dollars (RAPED by my lovely company)
    The guy whose furnace I fixed was the production manager for all of GM's new electric cars, his job was the programming and design for the computer systems that go into these things. So a furnace control board to him was like seeing a dirty flame sensor to us. He told me exactly what was wrong with his board and 5 reasons it could have caused it this way! He said you know I really dont need you here I could have bought the parts for under 4 bucks! I just shrugged? He said he contacted his insurance company and asked them about what he wanted to do and they laughed! Sooooo I guess if you have the proper AGA or UL listing under what you are doing then.....
    But I would NOT do this anymore if you do not have the proper backing, you will end up spending christmas being Bubbas girlfriend

    And yes this engineer had a 5600 sq. ft. summer home here in Michigan

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    4,970
    Have to laugh a little at this post . At one time I use to have roughly 240 bad smart valves in the replacements box all in a pile in a back corner ( you know the cold solder that you could jiggle the connector) . Now I wish I would have taken a picture of it. It got to be kind of an inside joke about how many we had collected being they were under extended warranty so we had to hold them 90 days before chucking them. We just never did being it was getting iteresting that they all started dying at the same amount of time from installation date.

    I always looked at that pile thinking ....... DAM I wish I could tear these apart and resell them knowing how many dollars were setting their even if ya only got half price. I hung onto them a long time knowing that you are not supose to rework items like that . I just didn't have the heart to chuck them in case some way would pop up of being legaly able to make some money off them.

    Finaly chucked them being there was no way I wanted to get sued for altering them in any way

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    las vegas
    Posts
    1,505
    spoke witha friend & customer who is a product
    liability lawyer & he said that doing a field repair to any
    electronic board by a contractor is a definate no no
    in nevada. the co. doing thr repairs will be on the stand alng with the factory
    rep who decided to do a field repair.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    11
    So I have an official response from UL in which they do have a rebuild program. It has to meet the following criteria:

    UL does have a rebuilt program but the following items need to be considered:

    1. PCB Controls have be evaluated to their own component standard before they can be consider for use in a furnace. UL may or may not have done the component evaluation. If the component evaluation was done by another testing agency, UL will not allow the control to be rebuilt under UL rebuilt program.

    2. UL rebuilt program requires that the control be rebuilt to the latest edition/revision of the component standard. Even if the control is ten years old, the control will need to be rebuilt and upgrade to meet the latest edition/revision of the component standard. If the control cannot be upgrade then the control cannot be rebuilt under the UL rebuilt program.

    3. The rebuilt also has to meet the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s specifications. If the furnace was manufactured by, say, Carrier. Then the rebuilt control most meet Carrier’s specifications for that control. If the control cannot be rebuilt to the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s specifications, then the control cannot be rebuilt under UL’s rebuilt program.

    4. After UL has evaluated your facility for acceptance in the rebuilt program, there will be quarterly inspection by UL’s Follow-Up Services Group. The inspections are to insure that you are following the requirements in the rebuilt program.

    I hope this answers you question.

    Sincerely,

    Thomas Campbell
    Senior Project Engineer
    Underwriters Laboratories

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Houston area
    Posts
    1,493
    Is anybody still reading or interested in this thread? If so I have some comments and insights. If not I don't want to waste my time because it'll take me more than a moment to type it all out.
    The picture in my avatar is of the Houston Ship Channel and was taken from my backyard. I like to sit outside and slap mosquitos while watching countless supertankers, barges and cargo ships of every shape and size carry all sorts of deadly toxins to and fro. It's really beautiful at times.....just don't eat the three eyed fish....

    `. .` .>(((>

    `... `. .` .>(((>

    .` .>(((>

    LMAOSHMSFOAIDMT

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,911
    Twilly says much many hvac lawyers
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    The depths of hell in PHX AZ
    Posts
    1,140
    What cracks me up is how many of you think a new board is any better. Lol. All made in china with poor qc. I've never had any issues with remanufactured items. Fact is a smarter person probably looked at it the second time around than when it came from the factory.


    Lawyers will always say that. Duh. How the hell
    Do you think they stay in business. I'm sorry but I don't see the problem. The guy that did some of our board repairs at fes had a few masters degrees and designed half of the controls. He talked in a language that made my head hurt. Do I think his repairs were less
    Worthy than the one shipped from
    China.

    Nope.
    I will believe that the government is broke when the welfare checks start bouncing!!

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    1,012
    Pitch them in the trash where they belong.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    The depths of hell in PHX AZ
    Posts
    1,140
    Good way to think. Where does it stop? A soldered in fuse blows do you replace it or throw it out?

    It can all be broken down to just throw it out if we want to. Kind of a parts changer mentality. I have always wanted to go further into somethIng than just toss it out and get a new one. I have done repairs on television boards back on high school. A board can fail at any time. The liability factor rarely comes into play because it can seldom be figured out where something started. You think your FAP is going to stand whined something and sue the Chinese kid that made the parts that day. Nope. Insurance
    Will pay and move on.

    I'm all for recycling and fixing rather than filling up our landfills and buying
    More crap from china than we have too. Making a mt out of a
    Molehill.
    I will believe that the government is broke when the welfare checks start bouncing!!

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    1,012
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy-lvhm View Post
    Good way to think. Where does it stop? A soldered in fuse blows do you replace it or throw it out?

    It can all be broken down to just throw it out if we want to. Kind of a parts changer mentality. I have always wanted to go further into somethIng than just toss it out and get a new one. I have done repairs on television boards back on high school. A board can fail at any time. The liability factor rarely comes into play because it can seldom be figured out where something started. You think your FAP is going to stand whined something and sue the Chinese kid that made the parts that day. Nope. Insurance
    Will pay and move on.

    I'm all for recycling and fixing rather than filling up our landfills and buying
    More crap from china than we have too. Making a mt out of a
    Molehill.
    I still say pitch the crap and buy a new one best for the costumer. less headaches etc. It's not hard to now why they fail just a loose solder will do it or a faulty capacitor or stuck relay. Get new board replace move on I don't have to know everything about everything.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    The depths of hell in PHX AZ
    Posts
    1,140
    That's not the point of this op though. Repairing boards is being crucified here. Lots of precious metal in them. Why throw stuff away that can be useful again?
    I will believe that the government is broke when the welfare checks start bouncing!!

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,281
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy-lvhm View Post
    That's not the point of this op though. Repairing boards is being crucified here. Lots of precious metal in them. Why throw stuff away that can be useful again?
    Anything recycled is a good thing....

    But a paper work trail that holds someone responsible is not a good thing and that is the bottom line.

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