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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    103
    I hear that 410a is superior to R-22 in a heat pump, because it increases the temp. at the register by about 15 degrees which reduces "cold blow" problems. Is this an accurate statement?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    I don't really agree with that statement completely. Yes, R-410a systems operate at a higher refrigerant pressure which could lead to higher delta-t. But to say explicitly that it will increase supply side temps by 15 degrees seems a little ludicris. I have seen customers who have been happier with a newer 410a system over there old 22 system, BUT, to say its solely the refrigerant is a little assuming, because R-410a is usually the refrigerant of choice in high efficiency variable speed systems.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL.
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    It's also more efficient than R-22, &, because of its density, it can also be used in smaller diameter linesets as well.

    Yep. There's a lot to love about R-410a. And I think we may have only seen the tip of the iceberg concerning it.
    WHY?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
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    34,587
    The last couple of R410a 14 SEER heat pumps I've started had no higher temp rise than most good scroll heat pumps.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL.
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    Personally, I think we'd better all start getting used to using R-410a. The industry is heading that way, & I don't see it changing course with only 4yrs. left until a new, non-ozone depleting refrigerant will become mandatory.
    WHY?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Maryland's Eastern Shore
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    You might want to double check that special ed. I think its been pushed back a little further. I personally like 410a, maybe not quite as forgiving dichloroflouromethane.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL.
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    It's not 2010 anymore? I'm talking about when all mfg.'s will be required to make only R-410a capable systems, NOT complete R-22 phase-out.
    WHY?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    7,680
    Originally posted by georgiaguy
    I hear that 410a is superior to R-22 in a heat pump, because it increases the temp. at the register by about 15 degrees which reduces "cold blow" problems. Is this an accurate statement?
    no its not. Both refrigerants operate at the same temperatures. 40 degrees is 40 degrees no mattter how you slice it. It's kind of like asking which is heavier, a pound of bricks or a pound of feathers.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
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    68,758
    Originally posted by special ed
    It's not 2010 anymore? I'm talking about when all mfg.'s will be required to make only R-410a capable systems, NOT complete R-22 phase-out.
    2010 is still the phase out.

    But it doesn't say r410a only allowed to be manufactured.


    The 15 seer 410a's we put in, don't seem to blow out any warmer then the r22 13 seers at the same operating conditions.


    Doc, when you coming to lancaster again.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    When I need to. Why, are you going to get Robo to buy us lunch?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    91
    Originally posted by beenthere
    Originally posted by special ed
    It's not 2010 anymore? I'm talking about when all mfg.'s will be required to make only R-410a capable systems, NOT complete R-22 phase-out.

    The 15 seer 410a's we put in, don't seem to blow out any warmer then the r22 13 seers at the same operating conditions.
    Why would they? Many people seem to confuse capacity with efficiency. SEER is a measure of efficiency: i.e. how much energy is required for a certain capacity? As SEER ratings increase, all it means is that less energy is required for a given output capacity. A 3 ton system is still a 3 ton system no matter if it is 10 SEER or 16 SEER and, given the same operating conditions, should put out (or take in depending if its heating or cooling) the same amount of heat and hence the same temperature rise (or fall). The energy used to provide that temperature rise/fall will be different though.

    Paul.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    9
    Hmmm. I am not a professional but I was told that because the "specific heat" of 410 is lower than the old 22 at any given temperature and pressure, then the newer 410 cannot pump as much heat for a given volume of gas at the same temperature and pressure. In other words it is not as efficient as the old 22. However, the manufacturers have compensated by producing more efficient and larger units to achieve better output with 410. One way in which they did this was by increasing the operating pressure of the unit. With this each compressor stroke pumps more gas by weight than the old 22 units and this increased quantity makes for a higher heat carrying capacity. However, there is a manufacturing cost attached to producing the more robust units that can handle the higher pressures.

    But, does it matter? Years ago ammonia was widely used. It was environment friendly in that plants love it and absorb it quickly out of the atmosphere and that it does not affect ozone. So, why not go back to ammonia? One reason is that it kills people. If you are in your house when your heat exchanger fails, you will be lucky to survive. Another reason is that the long term effects of exposure, especially by repairmen, destroys kidneys. The new 410 may not be as good in some respects, but it does not have the nasty sideaffects.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    103
    The issue really isn't efficiency, I assume the R22 will do the job, the question is whether or not comfort will be enhanced with 410a because the air coming out of the registers is a little hotter. Especially for those that are used to a toasty gas furnace.

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