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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Cabot, PA
    Posts
    177

    wow.... what a mess

    Why did they even bother with the 3 inch? One look at that mess and I would run screaming from the basement. What a hack job hope that guy has a good lawyer. You should contact him at once and demand he installs it per mfg.'s instructions, or you will find another contractor that will and sue him for damages. People like this guy make me sick... And what is up with all that soft copper tubing looks like it is a gas line, might be wrong about that though.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    516
    I like the open air splice with the red wire nuts. Part of the same job or are you just lucky with contractors?
    Good luck. Stick to your guns and get it vented correctly.

    2 45's = 1 90 All elbows are not created equal.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    manitowoc wisconsin
    Posts
    4,943

    Re: A picture

    Originally posted by klyons20
    I think the exciting installation will work, but since you are paying for it. You should get what you pay for.


    They should have use the clear primer instead of the purple it looks better.

    regards,
    Kelvin

    [Edited by klyons20 on 02-13-2006 at 09:43 PM]
    I agree the purple primer looks like poo but some areas require it by code.I think the gas lines look much worse than the pvc though!People should take more pride in thier work!
    Take your time & do it right!

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    962
    I don't see anything wrong with how they did it. You where counting the 45's as 90's. I'am a little skeptical about the instructions saying max of 10' with 5 or 6 ells. most manufacturers would go at least 30' for that size furnace.

    Don't worry about the vent blower life. I think your being too concerned, and no its not a safty hazard.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,323

    Question Pressure ?

    Originally posted by jeff-4
    In the install, they patched into an existing 2" vent.

    The setup is 3" PVC from the furnace through an elbow to a 3"-2" contraction, then into existing 2" pipe.

    All looks very nice, except I noted from reading through the installation manual.

    , the existing 2" vent run has 6 elbows and runs for a total of at least 20 feet. So, the new vent line has about 12 feet of 3" pipe including one elbow then about 20 feet of 2" pipe with 6 elbows.
    What is the back pressure?

    What is the allowed pressure?
    Ask TECH Support at mfg.

    The NEW installation IS Better than the old one.

    Does the original contract
    specify .."ENTIRE new 3" vent line will be installed" ?

    You wish to have 3" diameter ...
    Set-up another contract and Pay.

    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Waterford Michigan
    Posts
    2,668
    Did the Mechanical inspector approve this installation?

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    2,868

    Re: Pressure ?

    Originally posted by dan sw fl
    Originally posted by jeff-4
    In the install, they patched into an existing 2" vent.

    The setup is 3" PVC from the furnace through an elbow to a 3"-2" contraction, then into existing 2" pipe.

    All looks very nice, except I noted from reading through the installation manual.

    , the existing 2" vent run has 6 elbows and runs for a total of at least 20 feet. So, the new vent line has about 12 feet of 3" pipe including one elbow then about 20 feet of 2" pipe with 6 elbows.
    What is the back pressure?

    What is the allowed pressure?
    Ask TECH Support at mfg.

    The NEW installation IS Better than the old one.

    Does the original contract
    specify .."ENTIRE new 3" vent line will be installed" ?

    You wish to have 3" diameter ...
    Set-up another contract and Pay.

    Why should he have to check the quote back pressure?
    How do you know this installation is better? Every brand has different rules for the venting.

    Why does a homeowner need to verify in righting that its going to be installed according to the installation instructions and specifically the venting when he has no idea what the requirements are?

    [Edited by trane on 02-14-2006 at 06:48 PM]

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Cedar Lake Indiana
    Posts
    22
    THOUGH PICS ARE HARD TO SEE EVERY THING BASIC INSTALL LOOKS BAD PEOPLE NEED MORE PRIDE IN THEIR WORK
    PVC FLUE IMPROPERTY INSTALLED HAS TO BE 3" ALL THE WAY
    WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS IN FUTUER

  9. #22

    10 feet rule , I doubt it

    I doubt that the furnace had a 10 feet rule. I would like to see the install book, before I can say its techinally something wrong with this install. Here are the directions that came with my furnace I installed at my home.

    Vent/Combustion Air Supply Pipe Lengths

    GMNT 060-3 2" pipe 45' or less Chart assumes a maximum of 4-90 degree elbows. For excess of 4 elbows decrease length by 7.5 ft. per elbow. A maximum of 6 elbows is acceptable.
    The use of 45's over one 90 is preferred.


    So you subtract 7.5 ft. per elbow after 4 elbows.
    Elbows must be long radius types. The maximum length of the vent pipe and the combustion air supply pipe is 100
    feet each.

    I need the model of the furnace so, I can look up install manual.

    regards,
    Kelvin Lyons

    [Edited by klyons20 on 02-14-2006 at 10:46 AM]

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    2,868

    Re: 10 feet rule , I doubt it

    Originally posted by klyons20
    I doubt that the furnace had a 10 feet rule. I would like to see the install book, before I can say its techinally something wrong with this install. Here are the directions that came with my furnace I installed at my home.

    Vent/Combustion Air Supply Pipe Lengths

    GMNT 060-3 2" pipe 45' or less Chart assumes a maximum of 4-90 degree elbows. For excess of 4 elbows decrease length by 7.5 ft. per elbow. A maximum of 6 elbows is acceptable.
    The use of 45's over one 90 is preferred.


    So you subtract 7.5 ft. per elbow after 4 elbows.
    Elbows must be long radius types. The maximum length of the vent pipe and the combustion air supply pipe is 100
    feet each.

    I need the model of the furnace so, I can look up install manual.

    regards,
    Kelvin Lyons

    [Edited by klyons20 on 02-14-2006 at 10:46 AM]
    Its real close using your furnaces install instructions to being the max allowed.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Cabot, PA
    Posts
    177

    Combustion Air??

    I hate when I see people spend money on a quality modulating unit and then the contractor doesn't install the combustion air to outside. What a waste. Also I would wonder if installer put in the proper 2 stage thermostat. I have seen a couple of these 2 stage units installed on a single stage stat. Unit would only run on 1st stage and never bump up to 2nd stage.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Here and there
    Posts
    4,805
    wrong venting . period glad i'm on vacation
    i belong to peta ... people eating tasty animals. all my opinions are just mine.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    70
    Whew, I didn't expect to get so many varied replies. Here are some comments and responses:

    1. Don't go too hard on these guys based solely on the pictures posted. They inherited a lot of messy stuff. I purchased this home from the builder, who was living in it for a long time and did most all of the work (including, I believe, the HVAC system, plumbing, and wiring). The plumbing and wiring looked like a rat's nest, even before they started. The flexible gas tubing (again original to the home) goes to the stove and gas dryer. The open air splice is also original and is a 24 volt line to the doorbell. Although you can't see this by the photos, they noticeably improved each system they worked on. Obviously, they weren't going to tear everything out and start anew.

    2. There was a comment on thermostat. They installed the fully modulating thermostat.

    3. The model of furnace installed is the Ruud UGFD-07EMCKS. This is the Modulating 75,000 BTU furnace. Here is a table copied from the installation and operation instructions:





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