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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,197
    I don't know much about Obamacare but from what I've heard it is absolutely useless & is just a political ploy to make people believe he's helping the average American. Anything short of National health care is a total waste.
    As long as insurance co.s are involved nothing is going to work. They've got to make a profit so whatever rules are put upon them will only end up costing us more in the end. The gov. is used to losing money but insurance so.s are not.
    It's as simple as that. I'm all for freedom of choice & I normally want the gov. out of my life but not when it comes to health care. Everyone's health is just too important to leave in the hands of the insurance co.s. For all of you who don't want national health care I pose this simple question:
    Do you also want to do away with Medicare too?

    Medicare is national health care, you just have to be 65 to qualify.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    17,916
    I think that all states that don't want Obama care should secede from the union.

    Then the liberals can destroy themselves by attrition.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    forney texas
    Posts
    17,890
    The way I see it is a certain segment of the population sought out the perfect family. A husband , wife and 2 children. Another segment of the population chooses to have as many children as possible.

    The latter is winning the battle because there are more of them. More voters means more Representation , means more social laws passed.

    If you really want to stop what's happening , have more children and raise them to vote for the values you cherish.

    Untill then, what you consider your country, will slowly disappear.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,197
    What I believe is that everyone should be treated equally by the gov. no matter what their status & let the people choose whether to accept what the gov. is willing to give them. I don't believe in welfare but I do believe in a gov. run soup kitchen & bread line. There's no need for anyone to go hungry in this country so if you can't afford to buy food you can wait in line & get what you need. If a guy who makes $200,000 a year wants to do it too then he should have that right but just giving people money or even food stamps that can be used like money is just rewarding poverty. Social services should be for all or for none, its that simple. We have poor people & immigrants who get better health care than a hard working family who make 40 -50,000 a year. That's completely insane.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,070
    If the got runs a soup kitchen... where is the incentive to work?

    "Why should I work (along with all the mess of working: difficult boss, getting up early, being tired, not doing as I please, missing a ball game on TV, etc) when I can get things free from the govt?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    806
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I don't believe in welfare but I do believe in a gov. run soup kitchen & bread line. There's no need for anyone to go hungry in this country so if you can't afford to buy food you can wait in line & get what you need.
    I could get by this solution to food stamps. I've personally seen people buying steaks and gourmet food with food stamps, wearing designer clothes, new iPhone, high $$$ manicures and go out and get into their new Escalade with gangster wheels. If they would have to wait in line and only receive basic food I would bet that costs would dramatically decrease. They'd also need to take a drug test before any freebies are distributed.

    My mom used to give out food at the church to "needy" families. She stopped doing it after several months because most of the people made choices to buy things other than food. Most couples were smokers, probably at least a pack a day = $300/month. That would buy a lot of the basics but their choice was buying cigarettes vs. food since they could get food given to them or receive food stamps. Many, if not all had cell phones also.

    People are free to choose (at least we used to be free until Komrade Obama). I don't feel I need to subsidize those that choose cigs, cell phones, alcohol, drugs, gangster wheels, gold teeth etc. over food or paying something toward taking care of themselves.
    Avatar is a tribute to my Great Grandfather, Andrew Stewart. This pin was one of his advertisements for his heating and plumbing business. I never knew him but must of inherited his love of things mechanical since I am the only blue collar worker in the family

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,943
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    What I believe is that everyone should be treated equally by the gov. no matter what their status & let the people choose whether to accept what the gov. is willing to give them. I don't believe in welfare but I do believe in a gov. run soup kitchen & bread line. There's no need for anyone to go hungry in this country so if you can't afford to buy food you can wait in line & get what you need. If a guy who makes $200,000 a year wants to do it too then he should have that right but just giving people money or even food stamps that can be used like money is just rewarding poverty. Social services should be for all or for none, its that simple. We have poor people & immigrants who get better health care than a hard working family who make 40 -50,000 a year. That's completely insane.
    You are describing Socialism.

    Government cannot "give" us anything. All government can do is redistribute our money from those who can and will to those who cannot or won't, without any socila value added.

    Soup kitchens are best run by social organizations and religious organizations. These private organizations provide social values along with physical nurishment. Those in need, need both. Government only makes those in need, more needy.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,943
    Quote Originally Posted by texas cooler View Post
    I could get by this solution to food stamps. I've personally seen people buying steaks and gourmet food with food stamps, wearing designer clothes, new iPhone, high $$$ manicures and go out and get into their new Escalade with gangster wheels. If they would have to wait in line and only receive basic food I would bet that costs would dramatically decrease. They'd also need to take a drug test before any freebies are distributed.

    My mom used to give out food at the church to "needy" families. She stopped doing it after several months because most of the people made choices to buy things other than food. Most couples were smokers, probably at least a pack a day = $300/month. That would buy a lot of the basics but their choice was buying cigarettes vs. food since they could get food given to them or receive food stamps. Many, if not all had cell phones also.

    People are free to choose (at least we used to be free until Komrade Obama). I don't feel I need to subsidize those that choose cigs, cell phones, alcohol, drugs, gangster wheels, gold teeth etc. over food or paying something toward taking care of themselves.
    There is no doubt that the U.S. does have some of the best fed, best clothed with the best electronics and tv's of all of the poor people in the world.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    806
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    There is no doubt that the U.S. does have some of the best fed, best clothed with the best electronics and tv's of all of the poor people in the world.
    Most of the ones I have seen are very overweight, probably due to the fact that they buy candy and snacks with their freebies vs. food that is has nutritional value.

    Moochelle needs to be dictating what people can buy with foodstamps rather than sending the food police to the schools....or better yet, get out of our lives all together.
    Avatar is a tribute to my Great Grandfather, Andrew Stewart. This pin was one of his advertisements for his heating and plumbing business. I never knew him but must of inherited his love of things mechanical since I am the only blue collar worker in the family

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,943
    Quote Originally Posted by texas cooler View Post
    Most of the ones I have seen are very overweight, probably due to the fact that they buy candy and snacks with their freebies vs. food that is has nutritional value.

    Moochelle needs to be dictating what people can buy with foodstamps rather than sending the food police to the schools....or better yet, get out of our lives all together.
    In defense of most overweight poor persons, foods that cost less are usually more apt to have lots more empty calories. Many overweight persons are nutritionally starving to death. By my choice of foods, I was one of those persons until recently.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,197
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    You are describing Socialism.
    ......

    Soup kitchens are best run by social organizations and religious organizations. These private organizations provide social values along with physical nurishment. Those in need, need both. Government only makes those in need, more needy.
    I don't think the gov. helping out the needy is Socialism. A lot of social organizations depend on the gov. in one way or another. Even the churches depend on the tax free status the gov. gives them. What I'm saying is that the gov. shouldn't decide who is needy & who is not. That is best left up to ourselves. Capitalism works but it still has to have some limitations imposed
    for the protection of all.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    If the got runs a soup kitchen... where is the incentive to work?

    "Why should I work (along with all the mess of working: difficult boss, getting up early, being tired, not doing as I please, missing a ball game on TV, etc) when I can get things free from the govt?
    You don't like the soup.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,943
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I don't think the gov. helping out the needy is Socialism. A lot of social organizations depend on the gov. in one way or another. Even the churches depend on the tax free status the gov. gives them. What I'm saying is that the gov. shouldn't decide who is needy & who is not. That is best left up to ourselves. Capitalism works but it still has to have some limitations imposed
    for the protection of all.
    I don't mean to sound flippant, but it doesn't matter if you don't think government providing for the needy is Socialism or not. It is Socialism. That is exactly what Socialism is, and it doesn't work.

    Social organizations being dependent on government is also Socialism, and it needs to stop. Religious organizations should not be tax exempt for other then moneys direct used for helping others.

    How can you say that government should be redistributing our money but not have a say in who that money gets redistributed to? Why should government be involved in the process of helping others at all?

    Protection for all is limited to military. Even police forces should not have any Federal influence. We are on the brink of being able to become a police state as it is. I've lived through the police state attitude after the riots over Martin Luther King Jr.'s killing, and I don't want that to ever happen again.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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