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Thread: What do you guys think of KMC?
11-14-2011, 10:05 AM #1
What do you guys think of KMC?
If you have experience with KMC feel free to share your knowledge.
kontrol out"Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
"BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
"Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
“What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE
11-14-2011, 11:14 AM #2guitarman25 Guest
My experience has been mostly positive. My experience is with the KMC BACnet line only. The controllers and actuators themselves are solid and don't appear to be as cheaply made as some other lines I have worked with. Plenty of I/O's, for the most part. Flex-stats and Net-sensors with programmable logic and pre-programmed applications built in, as do the VAV, Heat pump and other controllers.
The front end seems to have a lot of power and ability to do everything I have asked from it so far. Nice graphics, trends and graphs.
The logic is BASIC, which I found intimidating at first but am a huge fan now. I can do more with this line programming, faster, than I ever could using GUI, especially in complicated sequences of operation.
Tech support is like all companies I guess, some of the techs know more than others, but their are a few that really excel, in my opinion.
If you are the one who orders parts, the online ordering is pretty handy and easy to navigate. Turn around time is average, nothing like KELE, but who is?
11-14-2011, 12:46 PM #3Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Jul 2001
Good products and had good dealings with KMC over the years , finding them lately getting sloppy with some stuff.
Reps operating outside their assigned areas and screwing up jobs then the local rep gets flak.
Not sure what the future holds with runors of their version of a MAGIC green box in the works.
11-14-2011, 04:13 PM #4Professional Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Council Bluffs, Iowa
I have been working with the Bacnet line for a few years now and have been really impressed with not only the products, but the company as well.
I cannot talk to the front end software much, as i always use a Jace, or i am integrating it into Alerton systems.
The line code programming did take some getting used to but after learning some tricks its not bad.
All in all on a one to ten scale i give it an 8.5
11-14-2011, 06:18 PM #5
I'm not a big cheerleader but I can tell you that in almost 4 years I have never had a hardware failure.
With that said, the front end, Total Control, is woefully inadequate. I will never use it again. Any future large jobs I will use a Jace or two. Total Control can be very quirky and do many strange things.
I'm not real happy with their pricing either. They like to compare their product with Tridium in the way they license software etc. I don't have other vendors to compare to but I think they over price the software. You might be surprised if I told you how much the yearly license fee is for the Tridium module. I'm not paying it!! I pay a yearly fee for all software and updates etc. I could be wrong but I don't remember anything new this year for the money.
The programming software leaves a lot to be desired too. Yes, it is a form of BASIC, but it is a stripped down rendition. There are limited 'functions' and keywords etc. To say the least, it is 'basic'. My biggest gripe with it is there is no way to dynamically debug the program. If you have a problem in your code it is hit or miss. You can not step through the code and read values etc.
Tech support however is good. Even when you have to wait it is not for a very long time. As said previously, some guys are better with some products than others. They will readily hand you off to the right guy.
Online ordering is not bad and most times your items are shipped within a week. Very rarely is it longer than that.
Another issue that I have with them is their lack of advertising. I'm in a big ASHRAE town and 99.88% of all engineers here never heard of KMC. I get the ASHRAE mag. and once went through 2 years worth to only find one mention of KMC. What used to be the monthly BACnet advertising section never had a KMC ad.
One last thing, I think it was mentioned in an earlier post. KMC's MS/TP still runs at 38.4. You would know more than I how important that is.
You may want to take a look at the available hardware configurations as well. All controllers are freely programmable but some hardware configurations are not very flexible. All inputs are 'universal' but outputs are not necessarily so.
This thread is a recent example of an issue that we had. It took approx. 50 man hours to resolve this.
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=962172"Controls is a lifestyle not a job" -klrogers