ReplyAny union believers want to try and justify the union hiring homeless people at $10. an hour with no bennies to do their dirtywork?
Professional Member
Am I the only one who sees the hypocracy of this?
Online article: http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_3402070
Full text below.
Irony marches with union sign carriers
By Tom McGhee
Denver Post Staff Writer
A passer-by walks past pickets on Broadway Avenue who are calling attention to nonunion work being done in downtown buildings. Most of the marchers are down-on-their luck day laborers. (Post / Jerry Cleveland)
Don't look for the union label on demonstrators who picket outside downtown buildings for the carpenters union.
Most are down-on-their luck day laborers, and some are homeless.
"It is an ironic situation," said Cindi Fukami, a labor expert and professor of management at Daniels College of Business. "The notion that people who have no stake in the protest are (the ones) marching, it's like rent-a-protester."
For the past year, the Mountain West Regional Council of Carpenters has conducted the lunch-time rallies. On most weekdays, demonstrators target one to three downtown buildings, chanting or holding banners that call attention to nonunion work being done inside.
But with construction work plentiful in Denver, it's not easy to find members to take part in the almost-daily informational pickets, said Eddie Canales, the union's director of organizing.
"We do call people who are on our out-of-work list, but right now most of our people are working," he said.
So El Centro Humanitario Para los Trabajadores, a Denver nonprofit day-labor center, provides stand-ins. The union pays them $10an hour.
"At least it is a living wage," said Harold Lasso, El Centro policy and program director. "We advocate for workers' rights, and we see that as our support for the unions."
Approximately 30 people marched in a circle outside 1560 Broadway, The Denver Post building, one day last week, chanting slogans in response to a union man wielding a bullhorn.
"Jobs," he shouted, his voice echoing off the building walls.
"With justice," they answered.
Only four were union rank-and-file. Among the El Centro stand-ins was a woman, 48, in a white stocking cap, who gave her name as September. She said she relies on the picket lines to fund a meager existence. "I do this every day," she said.
September also does housekeeping, holds signal flags at roadside construction sites and takes other jobs that pay between $5 and $10 an hour. "Something is better than nothing at all," she said.
Organizers first recruited her from El Centro after she moved to Denver from Chicago months ago. She has an apartment and is better off than some of the people in the picket line.
Michael Murphy, 44, lives at the Denver Rescue Mission. In better days he worked construction, but now he has diabetes. When an infection put him in the hospital for several months, he lost his job.
"I am trying to come back up, but I have got some health issues that don't let me hold down a job," Murphy said. He has belonged to several unions and said he believes in the cause.
"Health insurance is something we all need," he said.
Daniel Lopez, 37, is an out-of-work union member. With three children at home and another on the way, the Mexican immigrant has "almost four kids"
Professional Member
Any union believers want to try and justify the union hiring homeless people at $10. an hour with no bennies to do their dirtywork?
Professional Member
Thats funny
Professional Member
i think we should picket the picketers for substandard wages!
Banned
How many have you hired ?Originally posted by hvac_czar
Any union believers want to try and justify the union hiring homeless people at $10. an hour with no bennies to do their dirtywork?
Professional Member
Why do you guys kick each othe rin the teeth over this time and time again. What the hell do you get out of it? You guys never solve anything, never intelligently discuss any of the real issues, you just ebat on your chests and think your side is the only way. And the funniest damn thing in the world is, when it boils down to it, you all end up looking like fools trying to respond to outragous ideas and mentalities on both sides.
Even funnier, you all are so much more in common than you try to separate yoursevles with the tag of being a union man or a non union man.
The union is a business decision. Period. It has it's angles for some, for others, it don't. All of you could benefit by puting your wasted efforts on more productive things like advancing yourself by attending more schools, getting in shape, learning the business side.
If I could just find an employee who not only was a cracker jack mechanic, but business astute and physically in great shape, I'd pay him.
Banned
What if I am in great shape, go to school, and already know the biz side of the biz,,,, Can I then debate the issue ?
Professional Member
None, not one... because in the trades you need some kind of skills in order to earn your keep... And by skills I don't mean "must be able to walk up and down the sidewalk".Originally posted by TitleLess
How many have you hired ?Originally posted by hvac_czar
Any union believers want to try and justify the union hiring homeless people at $10. an hour with no bennies to do their dirtywork?
Banned
They were not hired as skilled labor, maybe thats the difference, if they were hired to frame a wall or something perhaps they woul dhave been paid higher wages, would you have preferred they hired actors from the screen actors guild to walk the picket line ?
I personally think it was a great humanitarian decision , a sincere gesture of goodwill to the most needy of our citizens, I don't know how you or anyone can misconstrue that in any other way,
Banned
How? What if you had a brain?Originally posted by TitleLess
They were not hired as skilled labor, maybe thats the difference, if they were hired to frame a wall or something perhaps they woul dhave been paid higher wages, would you have preferred they hired actors from the screen actors guild to walk the picket line ?
I personally think it was a great humanitarian decision , a sincere gesture of goodwill to the most needy of our citizens, I don't know how you or anyone can misconstrue that in any other way,
Professional Member*
You gotta point. Personally, the reason I don't like Union labor is because it comes with a condition: That I run my business & employees their way, not mine. I'm sure there are many knowledgeable techs in the union (just ask TitleLess, he'll be sure to tell you how good he is), but that's not what it is about for me. I wanna be able to hire & fire whomever I please without the union filing a suit. After all, it's my biz so why can't I do with it as I please?Originally posted by Dowadudda
Why do you guys kick each othe rin the teeth over this time and time again. What the hell do you get out of it? You guys never solve anything, never intelligently discuss any of the real issues, you just ebat on your chests and think your side is the only way. And the funniest damn thing in the world is, when it boils down to it, you all end up looking like fools trying to respond to outragous ideas and mentalities on both sides.
Even funnier, you all are so much more in common than you try to separate yoursevles with the tag of being a union man or a non union man.
The union is a business decision. Period. It has it's angles for some, for others, it don't. All of you could benefit by puting your wasted efforts on more productive things like advancing yourself by attending more schools, getting in shape, learning the business side.
If I could just find an employee who not only was a cracker jack mechanic, but business astute and physically in great shape, I'd pay him.
WHY?
Professional Member
Well,
Ed, If I promised you that your wrong, would you believe me? You probably wouldn't.
So really, can we do business? Can I convince you? No way in hell. So is it worth it? I don't think so.
Part of the issues you all kick each other in the nuts about is that no matter which side you are on, you all have some really crazy whacked out ideas about the other's side. And alot of your guys arguements are unfounded urban legends about each side.
And most of the screamers that are strongly on one side or the other, have no educated experience over the other, which further reduces your credibility to argue to the points. Cause if most of you lived both lives, there would not be such a disconnect.
Professional Member*
You're right, I've never been union so I haven't a clue how they really operate (except when I worked for a grocery store, then I was union).
But if my pre-conceived notions are wrong then, please, by all means, set me right. But I don't see how anyone's dispelling my urban legends.
WHY?
Professional Member
The reason why most can not dispell your misconceptions, is because as much they don't know your side either.
You see what I am saying.
And thats why, some of the few intlelligent remarks in these kinds of threads go so unnoticed and one who makes a solid point which might lead to a good inquisitive and informative session leads to all the others who have no clue just beating each other down.
Same mentality of younger techs.
They know everything right?
If that young technician is not somehow reined in and truly brought under control so that he can actually give himself an opportunity to learn, he goes through his career as a second rate tech, but one that thinks he is great. You know the kind of tech I am talking about.
It's the same kind of thing with this for or against the union issue. If everyone wanted to relly know the ins and outs of each side, you all might accomplish a good thing together.
Banned
well, i was in a union
but i got tired of working 100 hr weeks all summer
and then getting laid off as soon as school started...
the only people working then ...
had "connections"
Professional Member*
Well, not that it really matters, Dow. I don't know of any resi shop that's union here in Jax or in Vegas. All the shops seem to be pretty fair with their employees mostly because the owners of those shops were once employees themselves.
But I guess no one's gonna dispel my ill-conceived beliefs today - at least, not on this forum.
WHY?
Professional Member*
There's plenty of companies that do it so what's the problem?Originally posted by hvac_czar
Any union believers want to try and justify the union hiring homeless people at $10. an hour with no bennies to do their dirtywork?
Professional Member
Part of the issue is not about a non union shop is being fair to their employees. A contractor has to choose if he wants to participate. Very few contractors have ever been forced in with a vote. It's just a pile of crap when there forced to. And most will get themselves out of it someway.Originally posted by special ed
Well, not that it really matters, Dow. I don't know of any resi shop that's union here in Jax or in Vegas. All the shops seem to be pretty fair with their employees mostly because the owners of those shops were once employees themselves.
But I guess no one's gonna dispel my ill-conceived beliefs today - at least, not on this forum.
Most contractors look at it as a business decision.
I will tell you why. I can offer to my future employee a nice retirement, a good paycheck and decent health benefit and all the other good stuff, cheaper by me paying that flat rate per hour to your union hall, as opposed if I went out and got all that independantly. By about 50%. If I want to offer my technicians the best I can, and really give them a solid deal, I can do it cheaper through the hall. That is no lie. That is truth. It's a question of, "do I really need to or want to offer that sort of a compensation package to my techs?" It's really up to me. Since I am the one signing the paycheck.
I think a technician who can focus on his work and not worry about the baby's prescriptions, or their aching back is a more productive technician. I want them to take care of their back so there healthy so they can work. They are more apt to go get taken care of since their burden is nill. Health insurance is a friggin killer. Since the hall buys it for 3000 members, they can get it cheaper than me with a group of 3.
No ****. So. It's my wish to have my employees taken care of. I don't have to do anything in house. They at the hall take care of that for you the member. They handle your retirement, your health. It's as if I am outsourcing all that. And for me. I have a fixed rate. It's a solid business decision for me.
Okay thats one angle. You willing to listen to another?
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