Arent labor unions great

[hvac_czar]

Originally posted by tinner73

Originally posted by hvac_czar

Originally posted by viceman
lets just say you are a mech contractor and you bid on a large job. say 40 million mechanical. you win the bid.
you now need labor to do the job. 20 fitters, 20 plumbers, 20 sheetmetal men. where do you get the additional labor?
did you have 60 guys sitting around waiting for the job to start? do you put an add in the paper? wanted 60 skilled
building tradesman for a 18 month job! and start interviewing? union contractors use the union halls to get as much qualified labor they need. how do non union contractors deal with the changing levels of labor they need for projects?

They bid on the jobs they can handle with the labor they already have on hand... Labor they already know the worth of, labor they already know they can count on... that can not be said of some of the union labor pool... Thats why some guys are known really well down at the hall.

that's not an answer. who builds the big stuff then? who builds a big hotel or convention center? so there's never a job in the area that needs 15+ men? i have well over $50k in equipment on the roof of the job i'm on. who do you guys call for these jobs? Bob's heating with his 3 trucks ain't gonna be enough. we do the big stuff.

We have 40+ pipefitters on payroll every day, our subs have hundreds more... controls, sheetmetal, insulators... the list goes on. We do the big jobs, we are used by your union bretheren because of our abilities, don't lump every merit shop with "Billy Bob's Heating and Air"... The only local jobs we are locked out of are some gvt. contracts due to the politics...

[secorp]

"Only Unions can do the big stuff"
"there are not enough skilled workers to do the big stuff"
Yet another pair of union lies, what a joke.

Gov jobs sure it's probably true. but that is the last strong hold the evil communist Union empire has a hold on.
Like Power Plants. they have the Gov. duped or bought out.
However there has been in roads made on that now as well, several local companies were I am have been doing Military work for years now, as well as defense contract work.

There are lots of companies with over 200 guys working for them, Union busters are sent in constantly. they dupe the morons into going Union then the owner closes shop. the morons are out a work and the Union thinks they won. problem is those 200 guys out a work remember and they never for get.

High rises, Condo's, mega schools, Convention centers, mega Hotels, etc. have been built non Union for years and the numbers are growing and growing. labor pools are now offering "trades men" in there hall's at an all time high. this allows for short time hires for a six month job.
some of the guys just like in the Union are garbage and come out with new tool pouches and I have to send them back to the labor pool. still a lot I keep.

If the Unions were smarter they would leave WalMart alone and go after destroying the local Manpower pools. for years they ignored them because they were rent a Bum's used for unskilled labor. not true anymore.

Unions will always be around and never dissapear, to many guys need them.

Still for me Unions are evil and bad, sorry to piss off Union guys I don't want them to Jimmy Hoffa me so I better shut up now. I have used my freedom of posting to much for most Unions good, I will shut up now.
"The Truth kills unions"

[TitleLess]

Originally posted by stevelmn
E-mail...

Thats not a letter,it's an e-mail,, you do not send letters over the internet.

[dec]

Originally posted by TitleLess
I happen to think that US postal service is pretty efficient, can you get a letter deliverd across the continent for 37cents with a non union postal service, if you can, let me know who it is, I will start using them also.

LoL..... YOU ARE ABSOLUTLY CORRECT, the government made it illegal for anyone but the post office to deliever regular mail. ALL of the UPS,federal express, DHL, and the others. They can deliever packages but not regular mail. They made that law years ago being when UPS first came out they felt that if they were able to compete with the post office that the government could not be competative. That is a fact , UPS tried to be able to deliever regular mail but were informed that they would not be allowed to.

So all being said , you are right but if your bragging that they are more efficant and do a better job and that is why no one else can do it for 39 cents. YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN, what next , are you going to tell me the teacers that are in the teachers union do a better job then teachers not in the teachers union. Just so you know before you say something.....their all in it lol.



BUT YES YOUR RIGHT.......... LOL

[Edited by dec on 02-05-2006 at 01:32 PM]

[tinner73]

czar...you said "Billy Bob".....i said "Bob".

you're right i should catagorize the abilities of the merit shops, just like you guys shouldn't generalize the on the union shops. i have a question for you...in our apprentice program there is a very high rate of failure. i don't have the exact number, but in my class 44 started out and about 25 made it through. the ones that failed weren't smart enough to make it. you are allowed to fail a "semester" once. you fall back into the class that is behind you (class every 6 months). if you fail again any any point during the 4 years you are gone. period. now my question is where do those guys go that couldn't make it?? merit shop? are they working for you?
now... i have never heard of anyone failing out of a HVAC school. ETI wants your money whether you're any good or not. they don't care as long as you've paid...."hey Bob you're grades are too low..we don't want your $2500 this quarter. try the union."
i'm not saying that you can't get a good education from a voc school either. just that they won't turn you away.
maybe...just maybe some the guys on this board that do the critzing about unions are the same ones that couldn't cut it in the program. i'd be bitter too.
i'm smart enough to realize that not all non-union are hacks and that not all the union guys are stars.
let's keep beating this dead horse some more.

[tinner73]

you'll have to excuse Secorp. he WAS union and was kicked out of the union. now he is bitter. he is delusoinal and paranoid that somebody is gonna "kill" him because he knows all of these "secrets". he needs to get over himself. he's not that important.

[secorp]

Another Union Lie..
I was never Union they banned me in the interview!
I was in a non Union apprenticeship and it pissed the guy off. It was wierd, he started shouting and told me to get out of the hall and said I was banned for life and he would follow me were ever I went. and he did real spooky, I am still on there list to this day 20 years later!

[secorp]

My apprenticeship 28 guys started after four years only 8 of us were left. It's still that way today, It's not just Union 4 years is a big commitment.

[tinner73]

riiiiiiight. they're looking for you. you're on top of their "to do list." i'm sure you don't really matter to them.

anyway ......that is not the story you told me a while back..but that is OK you can just make it up as you go along. i still enjoy it.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by TitleLess
I happen to think that US postal service is pretty efficient, can you get a letter deliverd across the continent for 37cents with a non union postal service, if you can, let me know who it is, I will start using them also.

That same group of incompetents have lost 2 mortgage payments and numerous birthday checks I mailed.

I'll bet my next 3 paychecks that they have never lost the first piece of junk mail.

USPS. What a piece of (non)work.

[slimwoodie]

Originally posted by viceman
lets just say you are a mech contractor and you bid on a large job. say 40 million mechanical. you win the bid.
you now need labor to do the job. 20 fitters, 20 plumbers, 20 sheetmetal men. where do you get the additional labor?
did you have 60 guys sitting around waiting for the job to start? do you put an add in the paper? wanted 60 skilled
building tradesman for a 18 month job! and start interviewing? union contractors use the union halls to get as much qualified labor they need. how do non union contractors deal with the changing levels of labor they need for projects?

i call the Hall ...

for all the Slugs on the bench that nobody wants

and i watch my labor hours soar .....

not smart ifn' ya ask me ....

[slimwoodie]

Originally posted by TitleLess
I happen to think that US postal service is pretty efficient, can you get a letter deliverd across the continent for 37cents with a non union postal service, if you can, let me know who it is, I will start using them also.

whassa union kick in yer other 2 cents ..

it's 39 cents for the rest of us

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by ct2
Unions are not reason jobs go China, the dollar an hour labor is. Greed.

-------------------------------------------------------------

NO the quaterly profits that major corporations post is at the very least >>>>>>>>>>>GREED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

how many million dollars profit a day does EXON really need to make ----------------

EXACTLY! If we Socialize all of our business's we can all make the same amount of money and be able to be just as good as the last large country that worked this way....that would be the U.S.S.R.

[RoBoTeq]

If unions are so great, then why;

Is only 11% of the workforce unionized, which is down from a peak of about 35% in the recent past?

Is most of today's unionized workforce directly or indirectly working on government projects or for government services?

Are all of these unionized concerns subsidized by the government?

Without the Federal Government subsidizing as well as providing work for unionized labor companies, there is no way companies with unionized labor could stay in business.

And even with all of the government subsidies, the unionized labor force is in a steady decline.

[Roscoe]

EXACTLY! If we Socialize all of our business's we can all make the same amount of money and be able to be just as good as the last large country that worked this way....that would be the U.S.S.R.

Man that says it all, and look what's happened to them.

[ct2]

the government made it illegal for anyone but the post office to deliever regular mail. ALL of the UPS,federal express, DHL, and the others. They can deliever packages but not regular mail.
---------------------------------------------------------

however the goverment does contract with fed Ex and UPS to fly mail across the states
-----------------------------------------------------

Ok , back to the discussion about bidding jobs

when a union shop and a non union shop compete for the same job....they both submitt bids , how much do they under bid the union shop for that work

I recall someone telling me that the non union shop will under bid them just enough to get the job but because their labor costs arent as high the company stands to make all that much more profit

is there any truth to that

[slimwoodie]

Originally posted by ct2
the government made it illegal for anyone but the post office to deliever regular mail. ALL of the UPS,federal express, DHL, and the others. They can deliever packages but not regular mail.
---------------------------------------------------------

however the goverment does contract with fed Ex and UPS to fly mail across the states
-----------------------------------------------------

Ok , back to the discussion about bidding jobs



I recall someone telling me that the non union shop will under bid them just enough to get the job but because their labor costs arent as high the company stands to make all that much more profit

is there any truth to that

round here, it's the union shops underbidding the Merit shops

[trane]

Originally posted by ct2

-----------------------------------------------------

Ok , back to the discussion about bidding jobs

when a union shop and a non union shop compete for the same job....they both submitt bids , how much do they under bid the union shop for that work

I recall someone telling me that the non union shop will under bid them just enough to get the job but because their labor costs arent as high the company stands to make all that much more profit

is there any truth to that [/B]

How in the hell are they going to know what the union shops bid is before hand?

Lets turn this around and I'll tell you how the union shop has the lower labor cost. I bid several large projects that are prevailing wage against a union shop. My guys have to be paid $42 an hour even if they are handing sheet metal to a installer. The only way around this is if you have an approved apprentice program and who do you think has those.

One more thing. The union shops here are starving for work so bad that they are doing it just above cost to make payroll and still owe almost every supplier out there. I have one general that is willing to buy the equipment because they can't and I am having to bid against this. I talked to a test and balance company I deal with on a school job I lost to this union shop and they owe him from the last school they did. Being union does not mean you make money or are better than the non union shops.

[Edited by trane on 02-05-2006 at 06:28 PM]

[condenseddave]

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by TitleLess
I happen to think that US postal service is pretty efficient, can you get a letter deliverd across the continent for 37cents with a non union postal service, if you can, let me know who it is, I will start using them also.

That same group of incompetents have lost 2 mortgage payments and numerous birthday checks I mailed.

I'll bet my next 3 paychecks that they have never lost the first piece of junk mail.

USPS. What a piece of (non)work.

Well, they're typical union.

So, they're at the top of their game.

Every single union-built/serviced supermarket I've taken over has been a train wreck for the first 18 months of a service contract. Ice cream high temp alarms set at 20 degrees with an hour delay, etc. It takes us a month just to repair the leaks in an average one. I'm dealing with a dandy heap of new ones right now.