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  1. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    947
    Originally posted by James 3528
    Tell you what Titless, if he said he was leaving, he would.
    LMFAOOOOO!!!! So True! So True!

  2. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    947
    Originally posted by viceman
    lets just say you are a mech contractor and you bid on a large job. say 40 million mechanical. you win the bid.
    you now need labor to do the job. 20 fitters, 20 plumbers, 20 sheetmetal men. where do you get the additional labor?
    did you have 60 guys sitting around waiting for the job to start? do you put an add in the paper? wanted 60 skilled
    building tradesman for a 18 month job! and start interviewing? union contractors use the union halls to get as much qualified labor they need. how do non union contractors deal with the changing levels of labor they need for projects?
    They bid on the jobs they can handle with the labor they already have on hand... Labor they already know the worth of, labor they already know they can count on... that can not be said of some of the union labor pool... Thats why some guys are known really well down at the hall.

  3. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    steeler nation
    Posts
    2,027


    They bid on the jobs they can handle with the labor they already have on hand... Labor they already know the worth of, labor they already know they can count on... that can not be said of some of the union labor pool... Thats why some guys are known really well down at the hall. [/B]


    such hostility!

  4. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    Originally posted by hvac_czar
    Originally posted by viceman
    lets just say you are a mech contractor and you bid on a large job. say 40 million mechanical. you win the bid.
    you now need labor to do the job. 20 fitters, 20 plumbers, 20 sheetmetal men. where do you get the additional labor?
    did you have 60 guys sitting around waiting for the job to start? do you put an add in the paper? wanted 60 skilled
    building tradesman for a 18 month job! and start interviewing? union contractors use the union halls to get as much qualified labor they need. how do non union contractors deal with the changing levels of labor they need for projects?
    They bid on the jobs they can handle with the labor they already have on hand... Labor they already know the worth of, labor they already know they can count on... that can not be said of some of the union labor pool... Thats why some guys are known really well down at the hall.
    that's not an answer. who builds the big stuff then? who builds a big hotel or convention center? so there's never a job in the area that needs 15+ men? i have well over $50k in equipment on the roof of the job i'm on. who do you guys call for these jobs? Bob's heating with his 3 trucks ain't gonna be enough. we do the big stuff.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  5. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    4,970
    Years ago I remember when they were building a lot of big power plants and the union sheetmetal workers needed bodies. Every tinner that had a kid that was out of high school was getting his kid in the apprenticship program. All they had to do was show up. now being these were big jobs a lot of them spent their whole apprenticship on that one job and when that ende there were a lot of guys that really were not trained well enough to be working full time anymore , just hanging out on the bench. I remember how many slowlyy drifted off to find another type of job where they could get 40 hours a week and be trained at something enough to know what they were really doing.
    Know Im pretty sure that isnt standared practice being I started out through the union but from what I did see there was so much politics as far as the little clicks as far as groups that battle with each other from shop to shop. There just seemed to be a battle to keep a lot of the apprentices from knowing too much being a lot of of older guys that had their card would end up on the bench being they were not into working too hard. I guess I just ame to realize that a lot of the guys wanted to be union because with the larger shops with tons of employees , they could blend in without having to work too hard. Once you have enough people all doing a little work you can get a job done as compared to a small amout of people having to work real hard to get a job done. Now is that bad??????, I guess it just depends on how you look at it or what your priorities are.
    I just how its starting to catch up with all the union businesses as far as having enough workers to keep paying enough for retirment and medical benifits of guys that have been retired for 30 years. I cant understand how they ever let the goverment insure some of these pension and retirment funds....its ludicriss. There is not way at what the premiums were that it wasnt going to be a losing cause for the tax payers. So what else is new lol, no wonder the post office is union.

  6. #58
    I happen to think that US postal service is pretty efficient, can you get a letter deliverd across the continent for 37cents with a non union postal service, if you can, let me know who it is, I will start using them also.

  7. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    dec....i don't know where or what year(era) you are referring to but now-a-days all of the union apprentices are REQUIRED to fill out monthly reports on their daily activities. the union does not want them driving a truck for 4 years. some guys do not get the full training that they should have during their 4 year apprenticeship. that is why the hall offers lots of night classes. i personally worked about a year and a half in the shop and the rest out in the field during my apprenticeship. some guys worked mostly in the shop and they like it there. it took me about two and a half years of waiting to get into the union around here. the unions are very strong where i am.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  8. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    146

    Talking

    E-mail...

  9. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    947
    Originally posted by tinner73
    Originally posted by hvac_czar
    Originally posted by viceman
    lets just say you are a mech contractor and you bid on a large job. say 40 million mechanical. you win the bid.
    you now need labor to do the job. 20 fitters, 20 plumbers, 20 sheetmetal men. where do you get the additional labor?
    did you have 60 guys sitting around waiting for the job to start? do you put an add in the paper? wanted 60 skilled
    building tradesman for a 18 month job! and start interviewing? union contractors use the union halls to get as much qualified labor they need. how do non union contractors deal with the changing levels of labor they need for projects?
    They bid on the jobs they can handle with the labor they already have on hand... Labor they already know the worth of, labor they already know they can count on... that can not be said of some of the union labor pool... Thats why some guys are known really well down at the hall.
    that's not an answer. who builds the big stuff then? who builds a big hotel or convention center? so there's never a job in the area that needs 15+ men? i have well over $50k in equipment on the roof of the job i'm on. who do you guys call for these jobs? Bob's heating with his 3 trucks ain't gonna be enough. we do the big stuff.
    We have 40+ pipefitters on payroll every day, our subs have hundreds more... controls, sheetmetal, insulators... the list goes on. We do the big jobs, we are used by your union bretheren because of our abilities, don't lump every merit shop with "Billy Bob's Heating and Air"... The only local jobs we are locked out of are some gvt. contracts due to the politics...

  10. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle of Florida
    Posts
    2,159
    "Only Unions can do the big stuff"
    "there are not enough skilled workers to do the big stuff"
    Yet another pair of union lies, what a joke.

    Gov jobs sure it's probably true. but that is the last strong hold the evil communist Union empire has a hold on.
    Like Power Plants. they have the Gov. duped or bought out.
    However there has been in roads made on that now as well, several local companies were I am have been doing Military work for years now, as well as defense contract work.

    There are lots of companies with over 200 guys working for them, Union busters are sent in constantly. they dupe the morons into going Union then the owner closes shop. the morons are out a work and the Union thinks they won. problem is those 200 guys out a work remember and they never for get.

    High rises, Condo's, mega schools, Convention centers, mega Hotels, etc. have been built non Union for years and the numbers are growing and growing. labor pools are now offering "trades men" in there hall's at an all time high. this allows for short time hires for a six month job.
    some of the guys just like in the Union are garbage and come out with new tool pouches and I have to send them back to the labor pool. still a lot I keep.

    If the Unions were smarter they would leave WalMart alone and go after destroying the local Manpower pools. for years they ignored them because they were rent a Bum's used for unskilled labor. not true anymore.

    Unions will always be around and never dissapear, to many guys need them.

    Still for me Unions are evil and bad, sorry to piss off Union guys I don't want them to Jimmy Hoffa me so I better shut up now. I have used my freedom of posting to much for most Unions good, I will shut up now.
    "The Truth kills unions"
    If common sense is so common how come so few of us have it!

  11. #63
    Originally posted by stevelmn
    E-mail...
    Thats not a letter,it's an e-mail,, you do not send letters over the internet.

  12. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    4,970
    Originally posted by TitleLess
    I happen to think that US postal service is pretty efficient, can you get a letter deliverd across the continent for 37cents with a non union postal service, if you can, let me know who it is, I will start using them also.

    LoL..... YOU ARE ABSOLUTLY CORRECT, the government made it illegal for anyone but the post office to deliever regular mail. ALL of the UPS,federal express, DHL, and the others. They can deliever packages but not regular mail. They made that law years ago being when UPS first came out they felt that if they were able to compete with the post office that the government could not be competative. That is a fact , UPS tried to be able to deliever regular mail but were informed that they would not be allowed to.

    So all being said , you are right but if your bragging that they are more efficant and do a better job and that is why no one else can do it for 39 cents. YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN, what next , are you going to tell me the teacers that are in the teachers union do a better job then teachers not in the teachers union. Just so you know before you say something.....their all in it lol.



    BUT YES YOUR RIGHT.......... LOL

    [Edited by dec on 02-05-2006 at 01:32 PM]

  13. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    czar...you said "Billy Bob".....i said "Bob".

    you're right i should catagorize the abilities of the merit shops, just like you guys shouldn't generalize the on the union shops. i have a question for you...in our apprentice program there is a very high rate of failure. i don't have the exact number, but in my class 44 started out and about 25 made it through. the ones that failed weren't smart enough to make it. you are allowed to fail a "semester" once. you fall back into the class that is behind you (class every 6 months). if you fail again any any point during the 4 years you are gone. period. now my question is where do those guys go that couldn't make it?? merit shop? are they working for you?
    now... i have never heard of anyone failing out of a HVAC school. ETI wants your money whether you're any good or not. they don't care as long as you've paid...."hey Bob you're grades are too low..we don't want your $2500 this quarter. try the union."
    i'm not saying that you can't get a good education from a voc school either. just that they won't turn you away.
    maybe...just maybe some the guys on this board that do the critzing about unions are the same ones that couldn't cut it in the program. i'd be bitter too.
    i'm smart enough to realize that not all non-union are hacks and that not all the union guys are stars.
    let's keep beating this dead horse some more.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

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