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  1. #40
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    lets just say you are a mech contractor and you bid on a large job. say 40 million mechanical. you win the bid.
    you now need labor to do the job. 20 fitters, 20 plumbers, 20 sheetmetal men. where do you get the additional labor?
    did you have 60 guys sitting around waiting for the job to start? do you put an add in the paper? wanted 60 skilled
    building tradesman for a 18 month job! and start interviewing? union contractors use the union halls to get as much qualified labor they need. how do non union contractors deal with the changing levels of labor they need for projects?

  2. #41
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    Jan 2004
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    Earth
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    Originally posted by lmtd
    Unions need to remain and will remain.

    All the non-union sentiment that gets speeled here on this site is comical.

    Fact: Unions have to be VOTED in, just like politicians.
    Fact: There are good members and politicians and there are bad members and politicians.
    Fact: Unions and politicians are both good for and bad for all of us.

    Wisdom is pure.


    Unions are not reason jobs go China, the dollar an hour labor is. Greed.
    A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!

  3. #42
    They don't Viceman, they can't do it, they can not build a large building or a nuclear plant with any quality. They generally are in the 25 ton and under market, where by the way is the toughest market and usually pays lower than residential.

    Anyway you slice it, the unions in this trade lead the way in every respect,, what do you think you would be making if it weren't for unions pushing the dollars up every year ? You got to be kidding me, I haven't met any tech in this biz that does better than a straight union package, they claim it all the time, then they count only there basic wage, but look at the whole package and you'll see the differences. It is downright stupid for a tech to remain non-union.

    Buildings are built by union members and union contractor's thats the way it is and you should hope that that's the way it will always be,, if you are taking your family into those buildings.

    It's like some of the control guys here, they have all the talent in the world, and they waste it working on some pidily ass little projects,,,it's stupid. They could hook up with a union company and put their skills to work and be better off doing it.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Richmond Virginia
    Posts
    1,078
    Originally posted by viceman
    lets just say you are a mech contractor and you bid on a large job. say 40 million mechanical. you win the bid.
    you now need labor to do the job. 20 fitters, 20 plumbers, 20 sheetmetal men. where do you get the additional labor?
    did you have 60 guys sitting around waiting for the job to start? do you put an add in the paper? wanted 60 skilled
    building tradesman for a 18 month job! and start interviewing? union contractors use the union halls to get as much qualified labor they need. how do non union contractors deal with the changing levels of labor they need for projects?
    So there's 60 guys setting around looking for a job (in other words unemployed)? I'm sure these are the cream of the crop! Things are different regionally and here there are NO union companies capable of doing large construction. The only union shops are the ones that are union nationally (Johnson, York, Carrier).

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    2,868
    Originally posted by TitleLess
    They don't Viceman, they can't do it, they can not build a large building or a nuclear plant with any quality. They generally are in the 25 ton and under market, where by the way is the toughest market and usually pays lower than residential.

    Anyway you slice it, the unions in this trade lead the way in every respect,, what do you think you would be making if it weren't for unions pushing the dollars up every year ? You got to be kidding me, I haven't met any tech in this biz that does better than a straight union package, they claim it all the time, then they count only there basic wage, but look at the whole package and you'll see the differences. It is downright stupid for a tech to remain non-union.

    Buildings are built by union members and union contractor's thats the way it is and you should hope that that's the way it will always be,, if you are taking your family into those buildings.

    It's like some of the control guys here, they have all the talent in the world, and they waste it working on some pidily ass little projects,,,it's stupid. They could hook up with a union company and put their skills to work and be better off doing it.
    Lets just say I don't agree and to discuss it further would be a waste of time.

  6. #45
    You do not need to agree it's the unbiased truth of the matter,

    What do you work on Trane ?

    Do you work for Trane , or for a Trane dealer ?

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    steeler nation
    Posts
    2,036

    So there's 60 guys setting around looking for a job (in other words unemployed)? I'm sure these are the cream of the crop! Things are different regionally and here there are NO union companies capable of doing large construction. The only union shops are the ones that are union nationally (Johnson, York, Carrier). [/B][/QUOTE]


    that still doesn't answer my question. how do you get manpower for a large job? this isn't a hostile question. i am curious how you do it.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,157
    unionized labor is rapidly being eliminated in order for Capitalism to take back control of our major corporations.------------------------------


    Can our major employeers take back the workforce without abusing them?

    sure there are many employeers NOW that pay close to what unionized employees are making , but there are also many more that would hire a workforce of illegals if they could .
    like I said before , 7-up is union, but when it came to a contract, they pretty much wrote their own and told the union that if they didnt accept the contract as written , they would close the facility and reopen it somewhere else....and in the bay area that is exactly what happened, they closed the bottling facility there and moved the entire operation to this city

    The chairman and CEO of this franchise just happens to be on the Board of directors of a Financial group in the bay area and as written in the contract , they agreed to making no contributions into the unions trust fund (for our retirement) and instead using that financial group for the 401K program they offer....that 401K program has a max employer contribution of 2% of the amount you contribute

    They are a self insured company so along with agreeing not to contribute to the unions trust fund, they also agreed to not contributing to the unions health benifit package
    consequently our medical coverage ranges from 50% to 80% depending on the condition instead of 100% through the union

    so big corporations are not really concerned with their employees best interest either. I am not saying that unions are either, they are all out for their own interests.

    I understand the cost for med coverage has gone sky high, but we are the ones paying for it , the employer no longer pays for coverarge , not even a % of the preminum like they once did.

    A matching 2% contribution max doesnt really say they are interested in their employees best interest, even after keeping the money in their own bank and using it for their investments

    I have another retirement account from the past in a union trust fund and they are doing all they can to keep a guy from ever seeing any of that money. In a recent letter they said that they will now penelize us for every quater of non-union employment

    They have also raised the retirement age to 72 yrs old....so I am not hearing that best interest from them either

    however , by hiring illegals , they dont have to worry about any of that. They will work for low wages , no benifits, and work untill they die, and any complaints about that gets them a ticket back home-----and look at all of the employers out there that are willing to hire them

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Coastal Georgia
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    34,902
    Originally posted by TitleLess
    You do not need to agree it's the unbiased truth of the matter,

    What do you work on Trane ?

    Do you work for Trane , or for a Trane dealer ?
    Put it this way. He has a job. You on the other hand claim not to have one.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    2,868
    Originally posted by TitleLess
    You do not need to agree it's the unbiased truth of the matter,

    What do you work on Trane ?

    Do you work for Trane , or for a Trane dealer ?
    I am a Trane dealer and have worked on large projects next to union plumbers and generals. There is nothing I can say that will change your mind or nothing you can say to change mine. Union has nothing to do with the quaulity of work done by anyone or how fast it gets done. I guy doing good work for a union would do the same for a non union shop.







    Only faster

  11. #50
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    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,157
    Unions are not reason jobs go China, the dollar an hour labor is. Greed.

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    NO the quaterly profits that major corporations post is at the very least >>>>>>>>>>>GREED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    how many million dollars profit a day does EXON really need to make ----------------

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Richmond Virginia
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    1,078
    Originally posted by viceman

    So there's 60 guys setting around looking for a job (in other words unemployed)? I'm sure these are the cream of the crop! Things are different regionally and here there are NO union companies capable of doing large construction. The only union shops are the ones that are union nationally (Johnson, York, Carrier).

    that still doesn't answer my question. how do you get manpower for a large job? this isn't a hostile question. i am curious how you do it. [/B][/QUOTE]

    We operate from a budget so I'm looking at dollars but also available labor hours. When we're bidding a job the timetable for the job is factored in (do we need the hours or could we make more on another job or jobs during the same timetable). If our resources are going to be stretched but it's a temporary spike I use temporary services because I don't want to hire anyone with the intention of having to lay them off later. The largest construction projects here are usually done by the companies with the most services in house (welders, sheet metal, engineering, air balance) and these companies also have some lower skilled guys that balance out the wage scale for them. It's extremely rare for a union shop to bid a job over $50,000 here if it's not propriatary (chiller stuff or chiller VFD).

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    steeler nation
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    We operate from a budget so I'm looking at dollars but also available labor hours. When we're bidding a job the timetable for the job is factored in (do we need the hours or could we make more on another job or jobs during the same timetable). If our resources are going to be stretched but it's a temporary spike I use temporary services because I don't want to hire anyone with the intention of having to lay them off later. The largest construction projects here are usually done by the companies with the most services in house (welders, sheet metal, engineering, air balance) and these companies also have some lower skilled guys that balance out the wage scale for them. It's extremely rare for a union shop to bid a job over $50,000 here if it's not propriatary (chiller stuff or chiller VFD). [/B][/QUOTE]


    it is pretty much the opposite in my area. union contractors do the majority of the large construction work.
    do temporary services have skilled trades guys available or are they just used for unskilled labor likie moving materials and unloading trucks

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