Check out this article on CO2 system development.
Anybody seeing CO2 growing in their region?
Terry McIver, executive editor, Contracting Business magazine.
I don't take care of any supermarkets. I appears that for high capacity produce applications the sheer size of the glycol coils needed would prevent it from being cost effective. I am interested in possible multiple controlled atmospere cold storage rooms using a glycol loop. Any info on these types of applications?
I know there is a new Target store in Orange County that just put in a CO2 store by another contractor. Hill-Phoenix installed a Whole Foods in the valley with CO2, I have yet to see one but I'm waiting on my chance to put my hands on one!
While I'm no longer active in the supermarket refrigeration arena, I do try to keep up with what's going on.
The US is lagging behind Europe in new technology for markets probably by 5-10 years. Most all of the CO2 related systems being installed here are using CO2 as a two-phase, secondary coolant for the low temperature systems, while the state of the art across the pond is now into NH3/Co2 cascade systems as well as transcritical CO2 systems.
This week I read with great interest that Hill/Phoenix has just acquired a well-establish Danish firm, Advansor A/S, which has a long track record of pioneering and manufacturing CO2 market systems. Check out their Press Release section on this page:
This is a game stopper in the making and is sure to allow this country to thrust forward rapidly.
In the small commercial refrigeration system end of the business, keep an eye on companies like Coca Cola and Pepsi. Coke has committed to go HFC-Free by 2015 by using refrigerant like CO2 in their coolers and vending machine systems. That's quite a feat considering they have around 10 million units out there, worldwide.
All of this will certainly trickle down into the general commercial marketplace within the next ten years, so watch for new developments and learn all you can now or you'll "out in the cold" very soon.
It is definitely coming to a supermarket near you.
Wal*Mart's current specification calls for all secondary stores, using glycol as the MT secondary fluid, and CO2 as the LT secondary fluid. When they start implementing this design...hard to say, as there are always several months of stores in the pipeline.
Yes, we as a country are quite far behind Europe. CO2 was rammed down their throats due to the excessive taxes imposed in certain countries on systems using over a moderate (can't remember the exact amount, but it's quite small) amount of refrigerant.
I was at the German equivalent of the FMI show a few years back, and attended a panel discussion with 2 supermarket chains, two equipment manufacturers, and representatives of the German and English equivalent of the EPA. The topic was CO2. After cutting through all of the typical BS a meeting like this contains, the bottom line for each SM Chain was this: We tried CO2, and they're more expensive to buy, install, and operate. Until that changes, we won't do another.
But governments have a way of influencing those decisions.
We had the first co2 supermarket in 2007. It was cascade.
Now they are building first full co2 dx supermarket. It's supposed to be 15-20% more efficient than conventional system.
Also we have Sanyo co2 residential air-to-water heat pumps. I'd hate to touch them. And I'm sure there is just a handfull of companies that will.
In quebec, i work on about 10 fully co2 rack. They have hotgas defrost, heat reclaim. Transcritical for mt and sub for lt and hg. Not work often but it is a nice system with a lot of eev for temperatur control
It's growing in this area as well, the 4th store using CO2 is being done now it is using cascade DX for low temp and 2 phase secondary in the medium temp, i have spent a lot of time there over the past few weeks and it's been pretty fun. still waiting to see a transcritical system this way but i'm sure its coming soon.
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In wich city have you work mikey?
The one i talk is entirely co2
About 15 transcritical compressor and 2 subcritical.
No, I have not seen any here yet.
Glycol is starting to pop up around here, haven't heard of any C02 yet.....
The views and opinions posted here are my own. They do not reflect the corporate policies of my employer and will most likely get me fired at some point.
i'm about 5 hours down the AR20 and hwy401 from where you are!
Originally Posted by Jonnyb
i wanna see one of those trans ritical systems, I've heard Quebec is where it's at for CO2 refrig in North America anyway!
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There are currently ~50 installation using CO2 as a refrigerant in US and Canada most of these are either CO2 as a low temperature secondary fluid, there are also a growing number of low temperature CO2 cascade systems, using either glycol or CO2 as a medium temperature fluid. For those of you in Canada or upper section of the US look for CO2 Booster Systems(transcritical). Those systems are HFC free systems using CO2 as the only refrigerant and are medium temp and low temp. They are very efficient system when running in the subcritical mode, which living in the North or in Canada is fantastic. Hill Phoenix Learning Center is conducting training on all three CO2 systems. Just contact them and they will come to your area for training. http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/images/icons/icon12.gif
CO2 is refrigerant of choose in Europe and Merced Benz is looking at using CO2 for auto cooling instead of 1234yf.
I use to be disgusted; Now I’m just amused