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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    833
    Uhhh, I think thats Pink Floyd.
    eventu rerum stolidi didicere magistro

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bartlett, IL
    Posts
    6,619
    It is Pink Floyd.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    147
    It is funny how many people fall through the cracks in HVAC/R. I know a couple guys that have been in the business for 7 years and are still not EPA Certified. I dunnoo...
    I mean, I am only 23 and I have a great job with a refrigeration company making over $20 and hr now. But you know what...I was real agressive in the inerview. I was very direct and technical. The owner coulndt believe how much I knew and with me being so young. But he sure treats me like everyone else. Just like the 15 year veterens he has. Same calls, same problems, same work, I get no special help. But you know, I love the pressure. I still have a crap load to learn, but Im sluggin hard these days. I am very agressive and fast and When I see somthing I want I move on it quick and I give them hell if I think Im getting the shaft. I told my boss; basicly, "you need me". I will make you a lot of money and If I don't??? FIRE ME THEN. He liked that he said "I'm excited to watch you" So Im happy, not to mention all the new friends I made at work! So I don't know, I know R12rules is a fantastic and brilliant tech, but somtimes what makes you best, is going through hell for the frist stages of your life.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Derby City
    Posts
    3,964
    First, my apologies to all the P. F. fans out there. Secondly, I must be getting older than I thought! I appreciate the feedback especially from the techs that have been through the process and can give a perspective from the employee's point of view.

    I am still searching..................
    Everyone has a purpose in life..........even if it's to be a bad example.

    Seek first to understand, before seeking to be understood.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    833

    You're expecting the impossible.

    You're setting up job hunters for failure. Do you really expect a job hunter to undersell themselves?
    "I have never come across the individual that after placing them at a certain level, found out, hey, this guy can do a whole lot more than he was telling me."

    That goes against what every job hunter is told.

    It's just your job to cut thru the bull. These are not original ideas, probably Joseph Schmidt and other posts on here:
    Give a written test.
    Give a hands on test on your own equipment if necessary: look for basic skills - tools in a bucket? guages on properly (purged)? orderly approach to solving problem? covers put back on?
    How about just raising your rates until you lose your weakest customers, then you wont need a new tech.
    If you still need someone at those rates you can afford to pay enough to attract the best.
    Look honestly at what you're really offering to prospective techs. If you are the top contractor in your region, techs will know it and be more interested in you.



    [Edited by cg2 on 02-03-2006 at 07:38 AM]
    eventu rerum stolidi didicere magistro

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    211
    Have you tried http://www.insidernewspapers.com/hvac.html
    It could bring you some talent from outside your local area
    and they'll publish your help wanted ad for free-

    How are you wording your ad?
    Just a few things that catch my eye when I look thru ads:
    Guarantee 40 hrs
    Benefits package
    Payscale
    Relocation or sign on bonus
    Website (By the way your co's site is down)

  7. #20
    Originally posted by trane
    R12,

    I understand your side of this and agree that life is not fair to everyone. Sometimes its all about who you know and not what you know. Texas must be overrun with good service techs but here the problem is finding someone that will work even if they don't know anything.

    You would not believe how many installers I have hired that all say they need a job bad and how they are good at this and that. But after they get a little money in their pockets the job is not as important and they start showing up late or even not at all. Some can not see past today and there is no help for them.

    I might add that after reading your posts on here for quite a while its possible your intimidating these guys with your wisdom.
    I went to work for one guy, he didnt pay travel time FROM THE LAST CALL. He said Husman didnt, so he doesnt.
    I lived with that.
    The truck he put me in ... it wasnt safe to drive. Period.

    No lie; I'm drivin down the road, in traffic, and I turn the headlights on the first time. FUSE BLEW!!!

    Pull over, figure it out and replace fuse, look for burnt wiring, etc.

    I will spare you the trials I went thru with that truck.

    Another I worked for, his truck had no door handle ...ON THE INSIDE!!!
    And this company had been in business for thirty years!
    What's their problem???

    Another I worked for, had no open accounts, anywhere! They were cash only, not even a check was allowed!
    Go figure.

    How do I pick em you might ask??? I dont know.
    I certainly do not grill the person interviewing me as to how established and responsible they are.
    But I'll tell ya, there are companies out there who are nothing more than a license without a backbone.


    I do not know if my background/ experience or my personality is intimidating people.
    But I do know this: when your sitting across from somebody and they ask what you want an hour .. and you answer their question by telling them what your last job paid ... and it's more than they currently earn themselves ... your NOT gonna get that job!!!
    I honestly know, by investigation, that I have been turned down for several positions just over that issue alone. And the guys who interviewed me lied to their superiors just because they didnt want me hired to work there.
    AUGH!!!


    I am not perfect.
    I screw things up once in awhile. (no duh?)
    I often ask questions to get a feel for the company's proceedure for handling certain scenarios.
    Of course i could just do it "my way" and NOT ask anyone how the boss likes this or that handled.
    And many times that is just what I do.
    I do it the way I was taught or have learned is a standard method for a given situation.
    And for the most part ... I try to err on the side of safety and reliability.

    But what growls my hide is this: so often a manager or business owner will view someone with contempt when something happens that the mechanic can be blamed for.
    But inplace of him sitting down and discussing the matter with the mechanic ... the boss simply chooses to either terminate the guy or begin building up a case to fire him.
    All without getting down to what really took place and discovering whether or not the company has any fault in the thing.
    Now THAT really chaps my beacon!!!


    The contractors I have associated with who showed the most respect for other people not only did exemplory work thru their employee's in the field ... but they treated their people with great respect!!!
    And that is what paid off!
    That is what they had to seel the customer!


    I mean ... let's face some facts here: service contractors do NOT manafacture hard goods!
    They do not creat copy right materials!
    They buy hard goods and make some profit and install those goods and earn more profit.
    And whenever they can service those goods in the field after the warranty period ... they make even more profit!!!

    But this profit is derrived from hiring and maintaining men/women who are committed/dedicated/trained/empowered/ ENABLED to do whatever it takes to accomplish the job!

    And MOST contractors do not... DO NOT enable their people to excell!!!
    It's almost like anything that gets done. billed, paid for is simply a fluke.
    And any time there is excellance as a result, it is more a miracle than standard operating proceedure.

    But any contractor who DOES ENABLE their people and proviced them with whatever it takes to actually do excellant work ... this employer deserves to be rewarded!!!
    They should win a prize. Not just receive a profit.


    Bottom line, so many out there simply treat their people with margainable contempt and hope to get by without getting sued or left in a lurch.
    All because they treat their employees like cattle. Treat them like mushrooms. Treat them like step children.




    I really doubt I would be acutely aware of this if I did not care about how I come across to customers as well as employers and co-workers.
    I claim Christ as my Lord and my King.
    So in doing so I set myself up to be held to a high standard or scrutiny.

    So I dont drive the company truck carrying family or friends when the boss says it's against company policy.
    So I dont do side jobs when it would conflict with the company I work for.
    I dont flip off the guy who just cut me off on the highway. Even if the van isnt labeled with the company name/ logo.

    Even though I may think that all night managers in supermarkets have brain damage when they cannot even clean out their own cases properly and end up calling for emergency service in the middle of the night .... when they could have known they had a problem at noon ... I still do not call them names or engage in an arguement with them.

    Even when the guy turned the t-stat up to 90 on the air conditioning.... and I had specifically told him to turn the WALK IN BOX THERMOSTAT UP TO NINETY.... to de-ice the coil .... I still didnt bad mouth him when I got there and the store was HOT .... and so was the walk in cooler!
    (true story)


    If people are responsbile for doing the work which brings in the money ... then these folks should be treated at least as well as the customers are. No less.
    And certainly not treated like they are expendable.

    And THAT my friends is my opnion.

  8. #21
    Originally posted by Milk man
    Last interview I went on I told them my limitations. The interveiwer was very unimpressed. Just was being honest.
    I went to one interview with a real good shop and I really really wanted to get on there.
    So when they asked who I had worked for and what I thought of those who I was supervised by ... I told them.

    I explained that I believed ever place I ever worked had provided something POSITIVE for me to carry with me when I left.
    I felt like I was a combination of all the good things I had learned, experienced and less of the bad things which this industry seems to adhore.
    Gee ... do ya think they listened and understood me?

    Nope! No explanation ... no follow ups. Simply denied.




    Of all the times I was approached when I was a contractor, in another state ... there was NEVER a time I jus blew somebody off.
    There was once where I broke my regular hiring practice. And that was when I DIDN'T hire the man who approached me!
    One time.
    And even then, I offered to meet with him and explain how the industry is laid out.
    He was still in trade school.

    Even in all that, I bought him a cup of coffee and shared how many facets this industry employs.
    He had no idea how vast this is. Just like me when I was in trade school.
    So I kinda knew how he felt.

    Even though I never hired him, I did give the man a chance to ride along on couple of times to get his feet wet.
    He seemed to appreciate that.


    I owe everything I am today to other people. It was given me. I had no rightful calim that I either earned it or deserved this knowledge.

    And I just hate to think I am taking this to the couch with me instead of into the workplace each day.
    I hate not playing with my tools more often.
    I dislike not being around green techs who want to learn this trade.

    I'm a Refrigeration Man and I should be out working right now and not sitting here at the keyboard ranting about how the industry is chocked full of technicians who hung out a shingle and decided to get in over their heads by hiring on people they had no idea how to maintain/ motivate/ enable/ promote/ train and network.

    (of course ... there are some out there, probably plenty in fact, who DO have business managers to do that part and financial managers to handle the expenditures and service managers who truly know how to enable their people for excellance)



    Thak y'all once again for hearing me out and once more I wish to appoligise for anyone who fell asleep while attempting to read what all I wrote down here.
    Whatever ya missed ... well ... it was probly somethin ya already knew about and didnt need to read again anyway.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    where the beer flows like wine
    Posts
    2,871
    R12, have you tried to land a job with the big boys (trane,JC,carrier,Hoshi etc)
    maybe mom and pops outfits are not for you, I wouldnt work for an small shop myself,been there done that, never again(well, you never know).



  10. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Santa Cruz, Ca.
    Posts
    356
    Hi John,
    How ya been? I'd like to agree with some of the posters claiming that overestimating one's level of ability is expected. Yes, I agree with you that most do build themselves up. But, I try to look at it as a positive and "can do" attitude. Sifting thru the BS is part of the interview.

    Much like sales, searching for techs has it's methods. As one poster mentioned, you're candidate is probably already employed. You might hope for somebody disgruntled or ready to move up. These types of candidates are passive job hunters. You have to reach out to them using several differant vehicles. The parts house is a good one. I place an ad for one day about once a month. That ad also goes to Careerbuilder for a month, and I use HVACagent. The concept is too really reach out. Use a "hook" on the ad like "$1000 signing bonus" or "GREAT BENEFITS" to catch thier eye.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    1,815

    Try the e-mail contact here.

    http://www.ferris.edu/cot/hvacr/

    Also the Air Force has a great training program. Most techs have seen a good bit. Advertising in the Air Force Times might get you a good tech.
    Quote
    “Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own." Scott Adams

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
    Albert Einstein

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    east kansas
    Posts
    8,035
    Originally posted by John Lloyd
    First, my apologies to all the P. F. fans out there. Secondly, I must be getting older than I thought! I appreciate the feedback especially from the techs that have been through the process and can give a perspective from the employee's point of view.

    I am still searching..................
    I thought I did.

    Can't be honest when looking for a job because the other guy is pumping themselves up.

    Don't ask any BS questions like why do you want to leave your current job. The answer should be obvious. Weather leaving on good or bad terms the job seaker is looking for a better life.

    Some of us want to have more responsibilities.

    Some want more money and better bennifits. Can't say that because it makes you look money hungry and will jump ship at the next better offer.

    Some work for a hack boss and co worker's don't know **** about putting in a system correctly. Can't say that because you'll look like you can't get along with peers and will bad mouth your employer.

    So what are you looking for anyway?

    Beware of advice given by some guy on the Internet.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    833
    It seems like job seekers are from Venus and employers are from Mars

    I still think it boils down to charging enough to pay enough and establishing your business as a legitimate company.

    PS, I would never answer an ad with $1000 sign on bonus, that's too gimmicky for me.




    eventu rerum stolidi didicere magistro

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