Last season I had a new furnace installed, an American Stanadard AUY080 gas furnace, Two-Stage, 92 AFUE, variable speed fan, 80,000 input BTU. A new American Standard 3 ton indoor a/c coil was also installed at that since the ductwork was being opened up anyway.
After the furnace was up and running, I noticed that the 2nd stage wasn't necessary at all. Even when we have very low temps (-12F in Eastern Mass) first stage could handle it without even a little 2nd stage needed to maintain room temperature. I've been wondering what the point of the 2nd stage is. Also furnace on times were kind of short and the airflow was noisy, not what I expected after all of the hype in the sales information.
I was also concerned with the small return air inlet cut in the side of the furnace; it is smaller than the filter and smaller than the instructions call for. The return air was on the left hand side and the condensate drained out the left side too, so a tube and nipple was setup that had to be removed in order to wiggle out the filter, which had a bracket that couldn't be screwed in. For pictures see http://southmountain2.tripod.com/furnace/
At that time I included a page of comments with my customer survey. Many months later (and several calls to the distributor company because the dealer co. never returned calls after repeated promises to do so) I was able to convince them to fix the condensate drain setup so I could clean the air filter without the drain hose being in the way, and so the filter could actually slide out without moving the bracket. They also fixed (board replacement) a big radio interference problem that occured whenever the draft inducer fan was working. This fix resulted in some improvement, but there is still a lot of interference. They seemed to ignore my comments about the fairly short cycles and that second stage wasn't needed in very cold weather. It's impossible to miss second stage since it is very loud and a thermostat light comes on.
Unfortunately when I bought the furnace I didn't know much about ACCA Manual J and I trusted the American Standard certified dealer (Customer Care dealer too) to be able to size and install everything properly.
After I wrote a letter to the dealer and Am Standard about the sizing problems I was encountering, the dealer has just informed me that they will replace my now 1 year old furnace with an AUY060 model (60,000 input BTU). Another contracter also felt that 60,000 BTU is the right size for a high efficency furnace for me, so I think I will take my installer up on this offer. They will do this at no charge, although I will lose the 5 year extended warranty that I have on my existing furnace.
I'm actually very surprised that they are willing to fix the sizing issues. Is there any reason why I shouldn't have this done? I don't want to be a jerk by any means, but what should I request to ensure that they do this job right?
I think I want to make sure they install a new furnace and not a possible returned lemmon. I also would like to make sure that everything is installed according to manufacturer's directions. Previously I noticed they skipped a lot of areas, such as the mandatory safety checkout.
Any suggestions to make sure I get this done right?
I will certainly write another letter explaining that the Dealer did the right thing to resolve the problems.
I don't know why you would lose the warranty. Somebody contact A-S or whatever warranty company they used and change it to the new model & serial #. We changed out a furnace when the salesman grossly oversized the blower for the size of the A/C and the HO complained about humidity control. No warranty issues.
My 2 stage is way oversized too but at the time they didn't make VS in the size I needed. Change it!
Originally posted by skeletor
Unfortunately when I bought the furnace I didn't know much about ACCA Manual J and I trusted the American Standard certified dealer (Customer Care dealer too) to be able to size and install everything properly.
Before you have them change the furnace, have manual J done for your home. You can spend 50 bucks and a few hours to do it your self (red button at the top of the page). As much as you do not want that oversized furnace you really would hate to have it undersized. It could be possible that you have missed hearing it switch to second stage (i.e. early morning when heat loss is the greatest and most folks are asleep). I don't think the contractor would be so willing to come back and reinstall that 80k unit. If 60k will do the job, of course have them change it.
You should be able to have your warranty changed to the new unit. If the contractor doesnt want to it call back to the distributor. If that does not work call AmStd. You paid for 5 year labor warranty and you should get 4 more years. Its not your fault they installed the wrong unit.
Originally posted by skeletor AS AUY080 gas furnace, Two-Stage, 92 AFUE, variable speed fan, 80,000 input BTU. New AS 3 ton indoor a/c coil was also installed at that since the ductwork was being opened up anyway.
I noticed that the 2nd stage wasn't necessary at all. very low temps (-12F in Eastern Mass)
first stage could handle it without even a little 2nd stage needed to maintain room temperature.
After I wrote a letter to the dealer and Am Standard about the sizing problems I was encountering, the dealer has just informed me that they will replace my now 1 year old furnace with an AUY060 model (60,000 input BTU). Another contracter also felt that 60,000 BTU is the right size for a high efficency furnace for me, so I think I will take my installer up on this offer. They will do this at no charge, although I will lose the 5 year extended warranty that I have on my existing furnace.
Is there any reason why I shouldn't have this done?
(Lemon ?):
You will know the mfg. date of the replacement unit.
It is marked on the nameplate with serial #.
Load analysis would prevent this confusion in nearly all cases. Is your house about 1,180 Sq. feet!??
Insulation R-30 ?
Year built ___ ?
They should have know 80,000 BTUH (or the proposed 60,000 BTUh) was (maybe) too big.
Designer Dan
It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE
Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities
have them cut a filter rack into the return duct so you dont have to take the doors off to change your filter!!! Any hack can leave a filter inside the furnace!!! ive always said if you make it easy on a customer to change there filter,chance are they will!!!
make sure they run the drain out the right side on this one!!!
How are you a hack when that is the factory supplied filter rack from american standard!, i am actually very upset that the furnaces i have been buying as of late do not come with this filter rack or a filter,i even called american standard and they said they are not supplying these items with the furnaces any longer, granted the filters are a piece of crap i still think it should be shipped with one considering the price of these furnaces are not cheap, the problem with filter racks in the duct is you barely ever have a duct size that is a stock filter size.
Originally posted by brianbrb , granted the filters are a piece of crap i still think it should be shipped with one considering the price of these furnaces are not cheap,
why should they supply one based on the cost of the furnace? if they can knock off a dollar at the factory ill bet it adds up to 10 or 20 when you buy it
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the problem with filter racks in the duct is you barely ever have a duct size that is a stock filter size. [/QUOTE]
that is whay you are hired to do a change out because as a pro you should have the means to make it work or change it so that it does work
have a filter boot made to adapt to duct and also the correct size filter
Has anyone performed a load calculation?You need to have one done. First stage on your present furnace might be less expensive to operate than full blast on the 60,000 they want to install.Have the calc done.
If everything was always done "by the book"....the book would never change.
I agree with dhvac and baldy "lol". If the condensate is still a problem either ask for a pump to be installed so condensate can be rerouted around the unit or a cross over kit might be available, (condensate drainage has to come off the same side as the flue pipe) and this does sometimes create a challange.
Richard
And smokin is also correct-- Short cycling indicates low is still to large. Need it calced
If you think our goverment is screwed up. You haven't lived in another country.
If you put a filer boot on the side of the furnace you are installing something the customer doesn't need, as a "professional" i try to be resonable to the customer and try to give them only what they need not what i want to sell them to make more money, all i was saying in my previous post was to install the filter in the factory provided filter rack that is what it's there for, as for the condensate going in front of the filter, that furnace can have it come out either side, so why not have the installer change it. As an American Standard dealer for the past 15 years i have never recieved a score below a 90%on my customer satifaction surveys given by American Standard thamselves so i must be doing something right.
why should they supply one based on the cost of the furnace? if they can knock off a dollar at the factory ill bet it adds up to 10 or 20 when you buy it
And as far as this statement goes i am sure everyone has noticed the price of furnaces have not gotten any cheaper even though the have stopped supplying the filter and filter rack assembly, they have only gone up in price so why are we paying more for a furnace that comes with less!!!
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1,180 S.F ?
