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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17
    a couple of contractors have been to see the place. they are shooting down radiant. The crawl space doesn't allow enough access, there's no existing insulation under the floors of the 1st level where I wanted to radiant.

    So it would be a total floor rip up. The beams are 2x6, 24"oc. Pretty much not a good situation.

    One guy suggested overhead force air as a considerably cheaper alternative.
    Other than that, he offered up a new gas boiler, which I had intended to do anyway.

    Forced, as I remember, is pretty dry heat. Is there a good way to humidify that heat?

    As far as the other idea, he said a wall mount boiler would probably do the job, which is appealing to keep it off the floor where we've had flooding before. Although, this past year we had some diversion and stone work done that thus far has kept the flooding out completely. The sump pump hasn't run, near's we can tell.

    Bottom floor is no more than 1000 sq ft. Cathedral ceilings to about 10'.
    Long Island area.

    Any ideas or thoughts would be welcome.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    PortChester N.Y.
    Posts
    135
    Steam humidifiers are great , But expensive, if you go that route , have an installer who's done a couple.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    PortChester N.Y.
    Posts
    135
    Sounds like you live on the sound or the beach. If you dont mind ,Major renovation, Radiant can be done. Were still fighting some of the, Regs on pex.RADIANT is sweet.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    burlington county n.j.
    Posts
    9,763
    if doing attic duct system you should use a stand alone humidifier.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    22
    I DONT KNOW WHAT TYPE OF FLOORING YOU HAVE IN YOUR HOME IF IT IS MOSTLY CARPET YOU CAN INSTALL A RADIANT FLOOR ABOVE YOUR EXSISTING FLOOR. YOU JUST NEED TO PULL UP THE CARPET. WIRSBOS QUIK TRACK SYSTEM WORKS NICELY. TILE FLOORS OR WOOD FLOORS YOU CAN INSTALL A RADIANT CEILING IF YOU HAVE ATTIC SPACE ABOVE THOSE AREAS, ITS LABOR INTENSIVE AND COSTLY. ALSO YOU MAY NEED SOME SUPPLEMENT HEAT FOR SOME ROOMS BASEBOARD OR PANEL RADIATOR , RUNTHAL MAKES SOME NICE ONES. IF YOU CAN FIT UNDER YOUR CRAWL SPACE AND IT MAY BE TIGHT, YOU CAN STILL INSTALL IT UNDER THE FLOOR AND INSULATE AFTERWARDS. NTI MAKES A NICE WALL HUNG BOILER THERE TRINITY SERIES. I HAVE INSTALLED SEVERAL HERE IN N.J. WITH NO FAILURES TO DATE.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,996
    Do you have hot water heat piping now since you mentioned a boiler? If you had piping now, get some panel rads or BB along the outside walls. Hydro air is another option, but I'd still stick with rads or BB. Hate blowing warm air from the ceiling. Great for AC but not for heating.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,590
    The type of heat you have doesn't affect humidity. Infiltration affects humidity. If you are doing a renovation, tighten the house. New windows, foam insulation, something to keep outdoor air out. If you need a humidifier, you have a leaky house.

    So what is heat now? I'm with the previous post, if you have piping in place, baseboard or panels beats forced air especially from ceiling registers. Can't get much worse than that.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17
    I had a conversation with a contractor today. He suggested breaking the loop into more zones. Financially the best option. Radiant only by ripping up the hw floors. Someone else in the house (hint: my wife) said uh uh. Pretty much everyone that has seen the place haas said - radiant good, install here fugly.

    And of course a new boiler to replace the old and somewhat damaged one.

    There were 3 types of boilers he'd give prices on, wall mounted condensing Munchkin, conventional like we have now, and one other, that y'all probably know and I didn't retain the term. He was more favorable of the conventional and the 3rd option.

    He suggested using pex where the breaks occur to return to the manifold.
    Is this a good idea over copper? The average winter is 30 here, but it does get colder occasionally. The 3rd option allowed less heat to escape the flue.

    The biggest problem here is the total lack of under house insulation and the lack of access to do it. So next step is to call some insulation contractors and see if Icynene blow in is a possibility.

    pita

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    654
    I'd try and install baseboard hot water heat. Depending on layout, you could have multiple zones and no pipes would be underneath the house in the crawl for them to freeze. If pipes must be in the crawl, the system could use glycol to prevent frozen pipes.
    Blowing warm air from the ceiling should be the last choice for heating, right after electric heat IMO.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,996
    It might be too pricey to do all at once, but if you're willing to give up some headroom. put down foil foam insulation and put down quicktrak or easy floor to hold the radiant tubing then new flooring over that. Not worth it in a bath or kitchen right now if you're not renovation. But it wouldn't involve ripping out, just putting new layers in. The engineered flooring might cost more then the radiant materials.

    At least with a boiler, you have the option of adding radiant later as remodeling gets done. Stay with the wall mounted condesing boiler. Don't want the electronics gettign flooded again. Look into Triangle Tube's Prestige boiler also.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    677
    Do more research. Condensing boilers are very expensive and only make sense on a low temp system, (ie radient infloor). I have baseboard h/w heat and looked at a condensing boiler for the supposed energy savings only to find that unless I was running a low temp system, under 140, I wouldn't realize the efficencies I wanted. A standard 80+% boiler is a heck of a lot cheaper and gives me the same efficencies as a condensating boiler at the high temp that I run, 180. The condensing boilers are cool but maybe for your application they are wrong. Do you have standard baseboard/radiators now?
    My wife grew up in Rye and they pronounce it Long Giland
    I am the "Wally". All others are meer imitations of the original.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,966
    how about you go with the new boiler and run the BB above the floor around the perimeter,and with the crawl have sheets of 2" thick styrafoam installed between all the beams is the crawl clearence 24" if your on your back?contractors just don't want to crawl in the sand....piping and insulating.the insulating can be done little at a time thru the summer....i am over in Lindenhurst and live facing the Great South Bay,i pulled all my radiators over the summers and installed BB all the way around the perimeter walls no pipes in the crawl which is 36" beam to sand.still need the insulation done,might start it this spring with those 2'X 4' sheets from HD room buy room.
    "when in doubt...jump it out" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qEZHhJubY

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17
    yup, baseboard all around right now.

    I've been told that the condensation boilers also have more things that can go wrong with them. I like that fact that our current boiler has lasted 20-25years only damaged by floods and the like.

    some still say "lawgilin", but we tend to deport them guys.

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