York Yt oil foaming

[arrow4]

Hey guys, a new member, been around a long time with big chillers, mostly Tranes, I am having a oil foaming problem, with a small YT r-11 chiller, too much refrigerant in the oil sump, heater works fine, 140deg. off, ref/oil eductor is closed off, purge ref. coil has no leaks, is this a common problem with flash off,when the vent opens momentairy drop in pressure and shut down on low diff, and any ideas on a soloution?

[jayguy]

welcome to the site! around here, you need to give a lot of information, more is better. do not make an assumption about what is important and what isn't important...give all the info possible. and it helps to talk about pudding and asparagus since everybody seems to be talking about it in most of the threads for some reason.

as for this chiller, is the chiller pretty tight? or is it leaky? medium leaky?

[klove]

....and it helps to talk about pudding and asparagus since everybody seems to be talking about it in most of the threads for some reason......

Dang, jay, you're gonna make the new guy wonder why he ever wanted out of prison just to get into an industry with a bunch'a guys that talk about pee & puddin'.

Arrow: good advice from jay. Your basic question is "The oil is foaming in the sump - what do I do?". That ain't much for me to make up a lie from. You gave a little info in that the oil reclaim is valved out and there are no apparent leaks in the purge drum coil, but those two things don't generally create problems at startup. Oil pressure? Oil level? Oil temp sensor telling you the truth? How long between shutdown and restart? Oil temp to bearings? Anyone changed the vent solenoid? What's the timing on the vent solenoid? And so on and so forth......

[Entropie]

I fully agree with the comments before and want to add a few more questions, -which oil is used with the compressor?
-what is the saturated pressure / temperature in the chiller after it has been stopped for a while vs. oil temperature?
-does the oil foaming appear on start or during operation?

[milkyway]

......[/QUOTE]Oil pressure? Oil level? Oil temp sensor telling you the truth? How long between shutdown and restart? Oil temp to bearings? Anyone changed the vent solenoid? What's the timing on the vent solenoid? And so on and so forth......[/QUOTE]



arrow
here are the questions they are looking for,, mr. arrow!

[klove]

here are the questions they are looking for,,

There ya' go, M!

[stevedubo]

Did you ever come up with a resilution????? I had the same exact problem and i eliminated the oil cooler and changed the vent solenoid and delayed the opening for 5 min. problem solved

[sargent york]

Early model YTs had the oil cooler laced thru the botttom of cooler, so on start up some were bad to cavitate oil pump until oil warmed up, we had success in adding AMOT to oil piping as the later versions of YTs have. this mod bypasses oil cooler until oil warms to apox 120 degrees. Also the vent valve may be hung full open dropping pressure in oil sump foaming out oil on start-up, valve is normally closed except for small port allowing some flow of gas until a few minutes has lapsed then going full open. You are fortunate to have been exposed to the best low pressure chiller ever put on market by any manufacturer! Hope this info helps.

[arrow4]

Thanks for all the good replies replies, vent solonoid confirmed, not leaking, foaming is excessive when vent valve opens, high boiling for about 30 seconds long enough to cause pressure drop and lock out, then oil recovers, tried delaying opening beyond the initial board settings, sometimes it work, sometimes not.

[RichardL]

The late, great Mssr. Don Bull in York engineering wrote several papers on the York YT's, OT's & HT's on this problem he titled "System Depression".
Condensing the several pages of his very wisened pages I will shorten his findings & reccomendations quite a bit.

1- Insure that the condenser water pump does "NOT" start before the start signal is initiated to the motor starter. If the condenser water pump is to be started before the chiller compressor see to it that it starts at least "8 Hours" before the chiller.

2- If problem still exists after the "Correct" starting sequence of the condenser water pump, then the start signal to the motor starter should be delayed for up to five minutes by installing a time delay relay allowing the oil temperatures and pressures to stabilize prior to the compressor starting.

R.I.P. Don, As for one....I miss your very gruff voice and reading your now collectable "Green Sheets".

[klove]

Thanks for all the good replies replies, vent solonoid confirmed, not leaking, foaming is excessive when vent valve opens, high boiling for about 30 seconds long enough to cause pressure drop and lock out, then oil recovers, tried delaying opening beyond the initial board settings, sometimes it work, sometimes not.

So the only thing we know now that we didn't know before is that the vent solenoid has been confirmed. What was confirmed about it we have no idea, but it is confirmed, so I guess that's a good thing. Hope your chiller quits going out on low oil pressure..........

[klove]

Didn't know Don had departed from us. That is a loss.

[arrow4]

Vent solonoid does not leak by, this was confirmed by inspection and testing, thanks for the reply though

[klove]

Vent solonoid does not leak by, this was confirmed by inspection and testing, thanks for the reply though

I'm truly sorry if this offends you, but the vent solenoid is definitely leaking by - there's a 3/16" hole drilled in the dividing wall of the valve, so you have no control over whether it "leaks" or not.

I promise this will be my last time to comment unless we get some info worth commenting on. Is there any chance that you could answer any of the questions that have been asked? As jay said, the more info the better. And even though you may think you're giving the needed info, I'll tell you what I had an old guy tell me once - "If you don't know what's wrong, then you don't know what's needed to make the diagnosis, so you giving me what you think you need isn't doing a lot of good, so answer the questions and give all of the information asked for and I'll cull out what I don't want". I took that lesson to heart. It's gotten me where I'm going much quicker over the years.

[arrow4]

again, I say thanks, and yes I am aware of the small vent, the plunger was changed, as the original one had a cracked disc seat, and flash off occoured before the compressor came up to full speed, after repalcing the plunger/seat, the start up problem ended. However, when the vent solonoid energizes app 4 min after start, and opens, this is when the real problem occours as ,most people can relate to what occours when you shake a bottle of warm coke, then open it, results are the same.

[klove]

,most people can relate to what occours when you shake a bottle of warm coke, then open it, results are the same.

I believe that the guys who have tried to help you are well aware of what the issues are that you're dealing with - that's why they and I asked you questions about your operating conditions so that we could try to help you. Apparently, you don't want any help since for some reason you can't get past the "confirmation" of the vent line solenoid and simply answer what's been asked. I reckon this was just an exercise to see whose time could be wasted. I wish you the best in your endeavor to figure out the answer to your own problem...........

[RichardL]

Well put KLove, For myself I just deleted a post that was surely not a well put as yours. But I am so glad that someone has the cajones to come to these hallowed pages and describe the oil foaming so simply as a can of coke being opened. I feel so well informed now trying to clean up all the shaken cokes I just opened trying to observe the foaming.....Sheeeeeeeeze..

[jayguy]

arrow...

klove and Richard are getting a little hard on you, don't let that bother you. some people will do what they can to get under your skin.

HOWEVER, there are many around here (the previously mentioned, especially) who are very hard working, damn smart and very willing to help. so, you need to asnwer them even if you don't know the answers...but at least say you don't know the answer.

there have been many posters who didn't know jack, but they answered the questions brought up and i can tell that they are learning.

the alternative is to tick off some of the smartest techs in the industry (which includes klove and Richard) and never get any help again.

[choya56]

Hello folks, new member, saw this thread and signed up. Having same problem, York YTH chiller, two machines in building only one has shut down on low oil press. R123 ref. using York oil c. Started machine next am after oil trip, sump temp on chiller pnl 135deg.f using infrared therm 140deg. f. Oil pressure at startUP 45/47 psi, unit runs about 4 min, vent valve opens, 5/10 seconds later both oil s/g full of foam, oil pump cavatates,oil pressure drops. Tried several times same results. other chiller running, chilled wtr temp 47 return, cond wtr 80s. Oil level at startup 2/3 full top glass. Tried manually energizing vent sol valve on 30 seconds off 30/45 seconds 4 or 5 times on startup, did not foam as bad, no pump cavatating. We valved off the purge system, no change. The oil return off the chiller barrel was left on but appeared ok. Oil temp oit of oil cooler to brgs110/115. Not on site now all info we could remember. Help greatly appreciated, will obtain more info if needed. Thanks

[klove]

Hello folks, new member, saw this thread and signed up. Having same problem, York YTH chiller, two machines in building only one has shut down on low oil press. R123 ref. using York oil c. Started machine next am after oil trip, sump temp on chiller pnl 135deg.f using infrared therm 140deg. f. Oil pressure at startUP 45/47 psi, unit runs about 4 min, vent valve opens, 5/10 seconds later both oil s/g full of foam, oil pump cavatates,oil pressure drops. Tried several times same results. other chiller running, chilled wtr temp 47 return, cond wtr 80s. Oil level at startup 2/3 full top glass. Tried manually energizing vent sol valve on 30 seconds off 30/45 seconds 4 or 5 times on startup, did not foam as bad, no pump cavatating. We valved off the purge system, no change. The oil return off the chiller barrel was left on but appeared ok. Oil temp oit of oil cooler to brgs110/115. Not on site now all info we could remember. Help greatly appreciated, will obtain more info if needed. Thanks

Reprogram for extended prelube time. Gives you more time to get refrigerant out of the oil before starting the compressor. I'm assuming that no one has changed the vent solenoid and installed the wrong one when I tell you to do this.