Weil McClain Hot Water Too Hot!

[liebermg]

I have a Weil-McClain Ultra 230 Condensing Boiler and a Gold/Plus 80 Indirect Hot Water Heater. The unit is less than a year old. My hot water is much too hot. I just measured the faucet temp at 165F. The details are:

-I have the thermostadt on the hot water heater turned to its lowest setting. The thermostadt was already replaced once about 3 months ago when it did not seem to control the hot water. The current one seems to be working. When I turned it up from the lowest setting it sent a call for DHW to the boiler.
-The temp for space heating is set on the boiler is 180F (Setting 4).
-The temp set for DHW on the boiler is 120F (Setting 1)
-The temp on the DHW seems to fluctuate with what the boiler is doing for space heating. In the summer I was able to get the hot water out of the tap down to about 125F by lowering the DHW setting on the boiler to about 120F. Even the other day when the heat had been off for a while the hot water out of the tap was similarly at about 125F.
Any help would be appreciated.



[Edited by liebermg on 01-16-2006 at 01:27 AM]

[Jultzya]

Originally posted by liebermg
The unit is less than a year old.

I would be getting the installing company on the phone.

[tinknocker service tech]

sounds like a defective flo control or zone valve

wish i had seen the pictures before i posted

omg
dont know what to say

[Edited by tinknocker service tech on 01-16-2006 at 03:13 PM]

[beenthere]

A. its wrong at the boiler.

B. you should have a tempering valve installed on the indirect.


The indircts piping is on the inlet side of the heating circ, so every time the stat calls, its heating the indirect also.

[nutshell]

That tank should have a flow check, not a swing check

BTW some of the worst wiring I have ever seen

[bjd]

I agree with Nutshell, worst mess I have seen in a long time.

Replace check valve with a flow check

BJD

[liebermg]

Beenthere,
What do you mean it is the wrong boiler?
Also you said that "The indirects piping is on the inlet side of the heating circ, so every time the stat calls, its heating the indirect also." How should I tell them to hook it up?
Thanks.
liebermg@yahoo.com

[johnsp]

I think he means piping the boiler incorrectly. You are pumping into the return of the boiler, and pumping into the supply of the indirect, so the heating zone pump can still pull water through the indirect over heating it. Never use a check valve, get a flow check. I can't even figure out what's going on with the piping on the right side of the boiler. Is that a 3rd circ pump over there?
Duct tape and plastic baggie ties for the wiring. What kind of a hack job is that?

[atphvac]

From the way its piped I think you should have them add a zone valve in the line to the tank because I believe the primary pump would be able to overcome a flow check as well and you would still have the problem. I know of the company that is on the sticker and they typically do a decent job call them and have them fix it right.

[casturbo]

The return piping from the indirect needs to be corrected and the overheating problem will go away. Move the junction "T" AFTER the black circulator (below it). As it is now, anytime the heating circ (black) runs, it has enough force to open the swing check on the hot water maker and push heating system water thru it too.

I do agree on the rest of the job, it's not too pretty.

[atphvac]

The other way that would work is if the two "T"s going to the indirect were piped off of the same pipe (within 12 pipe diameters)either above or below the black pump and then only the grey pump would control the flow of water to the indirect.

[atphvac]

12 inches rather not pipe diameters. Casturbo the black pipe is on the return pumping down.

[atphvac]

You are right the t should be below the black pump.

[djk4502]

Look at installation instructions supplied with boiler will show proper way to plumb in lines like guys said above. Call contractor back out before warranty is up.
What a shame an ultra boiler that looks like that seems like someone was in a hurry. Good luck.

[beenthere]

Originally posted by liebermg
Beenthere,
What do you mean it is the wrong boiler?
Also you said that "The indirects piping is on the inlet side of the heating circ, so every time the stat calls, its heating the indirect also." How should I tell them to hook it up?
Thanks.

Not the wrong noiler but as the others said piped up wron at the boiler.
The indirect should have been teed in between the black circ and the boiler.
Also as the others have pointed out, they should have used flo cheks, NOT swing checks, unless those are spring checks, which I don't like for hot water either.


PS, remove your e mail address, not allowed to post them in here.

[beenthere]

Originally posted by atphvac
The other way that would work is if the two "T"s going to the indirect were piped off of the same pipe (within 12 pipe diameters)either above or below the black pump and then only the grey pump would control the flow of water to the indirect.

That won't work on this boiler.

Even if it was a promary secondary system, the primary circ is not energized by the Ultra's control modual on a heat call.
WM wants the Indirects circ to run directly throught the boiler by itself.

Other wise a good idea.

[liebermg]

Thanks for all the help. Does anyone disagree that moving the black return pump above the T will not fix the problem? Can someone explain the difference between a flow check valve and a swing check valve. Should I also have the flow check valve put in?

[beenthere]

A swing check is to prevent reverse flow through a pipe.

A flo check, stops flow in the pipe when the circ is not running. Most are a weighted disc, some are sring loaded.

[DJC]

A relative of mine just had the same boiler put in, and had the exact same problem. As many have mentioned in this post, their problem was the indirect being connected to the wrong side of the boiler circ pump.

For those not familiar with this boiler, W-M uses an "extra" circ pump in the space heating circuit to ensure sufficient water flow through the boiler's core during any space heating condition. The indirect circuit should originate at the supply, have it's own circ and check, and return directly to the boiler return. The space heating circuit is more complex. The water is pulled from above the tee for the indirect, flows through the check, and returns through the "extra" circ to the boiler forming a recirculating loop directly from the supply to the return. This recirculating pump must be above the tee for the indirect. The space heating circuits pull from the recirculating loop close to the supply, and discharge into the recirculating loop closer to the the return. This way, the boiler always sees full water flow regardless of the space heating demand. The "PHD" circuit adjusts the firing rate adapting to the temp rise required across the core to produce the desired discharge temp.

DJC

[liebermg]

So I had the return pump moved so that it is above the t junction and I also had the swing valve replaced with a flow check valve. It helped with the problem but the temp of the dhw still seems to be influenced by the call for space heating. Should I also have a flow check valve installed on the Outlet side of the hot water heater. It appears that the circulator pump is pumping water in through the outlet side of the water heater, heating up the hot water everytime there is a call for heat. Would a flow check valve on the outlet side of the hot water heater fix this?