"Stupid in America:

[sigma]

How we cheat our kids."

John Stossel touched very good subject on last night 20/20.

What do you think about public school system and unionized
teachers?

[bootlen]

School system here sucks. Our 9 year old is home schooled. As long as parents aren't involved intimately in theri kids' schooling and there is an ACLU and NAACP, this will continue.

We get this question all the time: "What about his social life?" Hey, I don't want my kid socializing with the likes of kids in these public schools. He is 9 and can look any man in the eye, shake his hand, and say, "How are you, sir?"

Teachers wouldn't need to unionize if their authority was returned to them. All teachers' authority has been stripped and placed in the likes of uncaring parents, the ACLU, and NAACP.

[ozone drone]

I don't think teachers being unionized makes any difference. It's a myth that being a member of a union somehow prevents a person from being fired. I think television has done more harm to schoolchildren by providing negative role models and artificial peer pressure for them to be smart assess instead of just smart.

Parents who are afraid to discipline their kids in fear that their kids won't like them is a second factor. Also parents who always side with their children when the schools try to impose some type of discipline also undermines the process. Teachers are being made scapegoats by parents who have no clue on what it takes to really parent their children.

[Edited by ozone drone on 01-14-2006 at 10:46 AM]

[bornriding]

Loved the show, except for the 'vouchers' part.
I don't want to see vouchers used, but I do want to see the public system do its job. And this is not limited to high schools. I have seen the same things from junior colleges and trade schools ( which is why I am not teaching at the one here anymore ).
Have seen many very bad teachers that should not be doing it, but as all government employees, they can't be fired.
Such a shame.

Richard

[James 3528]

Originally posted by ozone drone
I don't think teachers being unionized makes any difference. It's a myth that being a member of a union somehow prevents a person from being fired.bull$hit, you don't believe that either

I think television has done more harm to schoolchildren by providing negative role models and artificial peer pressure for them to be smart assess instead of just smart.

Parents who are afraid to discipline their kids in fear that their kids won't like them is a second factor.

Uuum no, they are afraid of the school teachers calling the cops

Also parents who always side with their children when the schools try to impose some type of discipline also undermines the process. Teachers are being made scapegoats by parents who have no clue on what it takes to really parent their children. This may shock you but there are plenty of bad Teachers

[Edited by ozone drone on 01-14-2006 at 10:46 AM]

[ozone drone]

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by ozone drone
I don't think teachers being unionized makes any difference. It's a myth that being a member of a union somehow prevents a person from being fired.bull$hit, you don't believe that either

I think television has done more harm to schoolchildren by providing negative role models and artificial peer pressure for them to be smart assess instead of just smart.

Parents who are afraid to discipline their kids in fear that their kids won't like them is a second factor.

Uuum no, they are afraid of the school teachers calling the cops

Also parents who always side with their children when the schools try to impose some type of discipline also undermines the process. Teachers are being made scapegoats by parents who have no clue on what it takes to really parent their children. This may shock you but there are plenty of bad Teachers

[Edited by ozone drone on 01-14-2006 at 10:46 AM]

Point 1. Out of my 33 years in the trade 7 were spent in the pipefitters union UA and 1 year in the Sheetmetal workers union..saw lots of guys fired and layed off.

Point 2. I don't disagree .... there's truth to your point as well as my point about parents wanting to be their kid's buddy instead of being a parent.

Point 3. Of all my teachers ... 3 or 4 were good , 3 or 4 were bad teachers who should not have been in a classroom and the rest were average. I still believe alot of people blame teachers for their own shortcomings.

[RoBoTeq]

Unions, homosexual advocats, NAMBLA members influences and ACLU ideology, all extreme liberal organizations, have worse then destroyed our public school systems; they are teaching our children that perverse social behaviour is proper.

With most unionized employees in the U.S. today working either directly or indirectly for government run institutions we are costing the U.S. dearly in our moral structure as well as our economic ability to survive in a much more competitive world.

We desperately need to get union influence out of our government.

[Special Ed]

The mistake made by my most parents, IMO, is that they don't wanna take responsibility for their child's education. Instead, they shove 'em off onto some public servant that's a member of a union & who, for the most part, could care less what their former students fare when the grow up. Yeah, I know, all those movies deifying public school teachers tell us otherwise, but this is real life! For the most part there are only two people in this world that care more than anyone else for their children. Yep, you guessed it: the parents.

[James 3528]

Hey Special....Ummm the parents paid good money for their kids education. I pay on 6 pieces of property and have no kids.


You would expect the same from a cop to do their job good or a fireman for the money we pay them.


Teachers can change a kids life and their gonna need two in todays world because you can't find both parents in many cases any more. . If, they teach.

[Special Ed]

So, James, how does it feel to pay for some other people's children's education?

I know a good teacher can change lives & I also know that most children nowadays live in broken homes. And that's very sad (children living in broken homes, I mean). But this, too, is a fact of life as we know it & unavoidable. But this is all evidence of the value of the family breaking down. Sure, we all agree that families are good but then, on the other hand, we all seem all to anxious to get a divorce simply because we can no longer seem to get along with those we swore an oath before God to only separate from at death.

Government does have a purpose. They should promote trade between the states & other countries; they should protect our borders; & they should protect the innocent by persecuting the guilty. But educate the masses? I think our Gov't., for the most part, has proven itself inadequate.

JMHO.

[skrewt]

I spent many years in the operating engineers.
during that time I saw more than 20 guys get fired.
All but one got reinstated with back pay after suing with lawyers provided by the union.
The only reason the one didn't get back is because he lost his temper and yelled at the judge.

Unions create a communist like environment where everyone gets rewarded equally even if they don't perform the same.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by special ed
So, James, how does it feel to pay for some other people's children's education?

I know a good teacher can change lives & I also know that most children nowadays live in broken homes. And that's very sad (children living in broken homes, I mean). But this, too, is a fact of life as we know it & unavoidable. But this is all evidence of the value of the family breaking down. Sure, we all agree that families are good but then, on the other hand, we all seem all to anxious to get a divorce simply because we can no longer seem to get along with those we swore an oath before God to only separate from at death.

Government does have a purpose. They should promote trade between the states & other countries; they should protect our borders; & they should protect the innocent by persecuting the guilty. But educate the masses? I think our Gov't., for the most part, has proven itself inadequate.

JMHO.

They shouldn't feed and house the masses either. That is another subject. What they should do though in this case is get the teachers that fail to teach out of the system when they are spending my money on it.

[oogene]

i have volunteered a few times at my kids grade school.What I have seen is; kids don't care because PARENTS don't care, our school is a daycare for school aged kids. Poor attitudes and no desire to learn plus the age old song "me,me,me'I.E.selfishness. IT ALL STARTS AT HOME !!!
on top of that, teachers have so many hoops to jump through that even if I wanted to teach, I wouldn't. You can't make a kid learn if they don't want to, it's not impossible but generally unlikely to inspire kids to learn.IT ALL STARTS AT HOME PERIOD!!!if You as a parent value education,and you are involverd in your child's educational process, there are no limits to what Junior can learn, but if you son't care or take and interest, niether will he/she!!!
P.S. vouchers are valid- we should have the freedom to take our kids to whatever school we want; we're paying for it!

[Edited by oogene on 01-14-2006 at 05:05 PM]