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  1. #1
    I would like to know why so many Pros continue to tell me that R22 is better than 410a and not to worry about it being around for the next 20+ years. I just had a new system installed and it is R22. I am more than a little concerened that I might have made the wrong choice.

    [Edited by ken curran on 01-12-2006 at 06:01 PM]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Florida
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    9,548
    Why are you worried about it? The only time you would need to replace any freon is if your system leaks, and hopefully that won't happen,as the freon is the minor issue. By the time r-22 isn't produced anymore, you'll be looking for a new system anyways,if for nothing else but effeciency. A 20 seer might be builder's grade in 2030.
    If everything was always done "by the book"....the book would never change.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Neither is neccesarily "better". As long as R22 systems are still being manufactured there is no reason not to have one with this refrigerant installed. Only if the price of R22 systems exceeds that of R410a will it be beneficial to have R410a systems installed.

    As a matter of preference; it just doesn't make a difference as to which is "better". Only cost factor can determine "better" unless you buy into the "man is destroying the universe" theories. If so; buy a R410a system. Either way, the electricity being used is either coming from an oil, coal or nuclear power plant...but what the hay, as long as it helps us sleep better thinking we are saving the world, go right ahead.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bartlett, IL
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    6,619
    Yeah, why worry? You'll probably be moving out in the next 4-5 yrs anyhow...that's what 95% of the customers I talk to say at least...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Glendale AZ
    Posts
    299
    If you live where the temp. gets up there in the hot months (AZ -- parts of Cal) your better of with r-22. 410-a has some real issues in heat. It's capacity to transfer btu's is not what it should be when it gets above 112 on the ground. (130-140 on rooftops). I've seen a 3 1/2 T (42000 BTU's) putting out 24000 btu's when it was 114 out. There was an indepent study awhile ago put on this site and it showed puron(410-a) lost its capacity a lot faster than r-22 at higher temps.
    If you don't in this type of climate don't worry about it-- their both good to go!!
    The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price has gone.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Seabeck, WA
    Posts
    1,870
    There are already at least a couple of r22 replacement refrigerants. Do not be concerned.
    Live for yourself and ask no one to live for you.

  7. #7
    Originally posted by danj
    If you live where the temp. gets up there in the hot months (AZ -- parts of Cal) your better of with r-22. 410-a has some real issues in heat. It's capacity to transfer btu's is not what it should be when it gets above 112 on the ground. (130-140 on rooftops). I've seen a 3 1/2 T (42000 BTU's) putting out 24000 btu's when it was 114 out. There was an indepent study awhile ago put on this site and it showed puron(410-a) lost its capacity a lot faster than r-22 at higher temps.
    If you don't in this type of climate don't worry about it-- their both good to go!!
    I do live in So Cal in the Inland Empire and the Summers are HOT! I read the scentific study that you have referred to and came to the conclusion that 410a is not a good performer in my climate. As for the Global Warming, I just think that it is a business and plain BS. Scientific data does not support it. This was pointed out in Micheal Crichtons book, "State of Fear". The only fear I have is not being able to get R22 down the road if I need some without selling one of the kids.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Toms River, NJ
    Posts
    425
    I believe that most pros are telling you this simply because they are most familiar with r-22 and most of us are very resistant or even afraid of change. Its like working with a certain brand of equipment, you get comfortable with it and you dont want to change. I have learned that if you want to survive in this trade, you better learn to embrace change and be willing to adapt to the new technology. 410a is much less forgiving that r-22 due to the different oil in the refrigerant. The hacks will have a tough time adapting and hopefully it weed out some of the less desireables in our trade. Most professionals will tell you they either refrigerant will do the job just fine. I agree with Robo about the cost factor. Right now Puron is much more than R-22 so that its more cost effective to use R-22 right now. You might want to buy yourself some R-22 and put it to the side.

    Dave in NJ

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,597
    you made a good choice.

    if it's necessary to sell your kids, you may want to consider a new system.

    well, maybe.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    The cost of R22 has been steadily going up. Not a whole lot and certainly nothing to panic over like what happened to R12, but it is going up in price as more alternative refrigerants come into play.

    As far as R22 replacements go, none of them are as efficient, all of them are blends that are not as isotropic as R410a is, all of them contain flammable butane and it just won't matter after R22 systems are no longer able to be manufactured.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    108
    We just had 3 units put in renthouses, both 10 seer and r22 units. We looked at the 410a units but ouch, wa$nt worth it for our situation. By the time r22 isnt available I'll probably be dead anyway. But yeah if i had a ton of money to spend and a new luxury home Id probably go with the 410 systems and a high seer just to be up to date with technology.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,286

    Exclamation Think Again

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by ken curran
    [B]
    Originally posted by danj
    As for the Global Warming, I just think that it is a business and plain BS. Scientific data does not support it. This was pointed out in Micheal Crichtons book, "State of Fear".
    Where have you been the last 5 or 10 years?

    With the current rate of warming, 1.5'F in 100 years,
    crops will "fail" in another 100 years.

    http://www.climatehotmap.org/namerica.html

    http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/

    [Edited by dan sw fl on 01-13-2006 at 02:44 AM]
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Originally posted by curiousgirl
    We just had 3 units put in renthouses, both 10 seer and r22 units. We looked at the 410a units but ouch, wa$nt worth it for our situation. By the time r22 isnt available I'll probably be dead anyway.
    How long to you want them to last? In 2015, production of CFC's (R-22 is one) will be reduced by law to 10% the volumes that were manufactured just a few years ago. I submit that the price will be a little stiffer when the supply is less than the demand. I dont have a crystal ball but I think we all know the basic rules of economics and the CFC laws. Personally I hope your still around in 2020 when it will no longer be made.

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