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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
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    68,795
    Quote Originally Posted by beeninyourshoes View Post
    Depends actually! Let's say you leave for a week and put the heat on 55 for that week...you come home one night in February in a New England winter. Think a 300 heat pump will heat your home that night with a 25 ambient? Now let's take the SAME scenario and hit the same home the same night with a 3000 degree nat gas furnace w a comercial Honeywell true steam ($ if u install yourself = 9 gallons of water a day) humidifier. That 3000 heat is DRY , so it must be humidified. That same home will be 72 within 3 hours; I kid you not. I DISAGREE with heat pumps in the north east. Sorry & I don't care who it pisses off. If u run a heat pump constantly without leaving? Ok maybe, but it's going to cost you $$$$ way more than gas will. This is JUST plain common sence. The problem is that common sence is the least of the seances! So I'll spell it out in plain English for you. 300 degrees is 10% of 3000 degrees. Get it now? The guy above here who said he tore out his oil furnace for a heat pump who lives in the N east??? Wait till Jan / Feb comes! They put electric heat here in S Florida since the begining of time for a reason. Then they first burned coal then oil in the N east for a reason. Probably because the 300 degrees electric OR a heat pump kicks out won't cut it up there. Now redundancy, dual stage , whatever U call it...... Heat pump w a gas furnace? = OK. But most heat pumps have electric as "emergency" or dual, or backup heat. Sure gas prices skyrocketed. But us nat gas 10 times the cost than electricity? And 10 is a NICE round figure. I lived in S Florida all my life & Mass all my life. I think this is right there for anyone to see if you just think it through. Call ANY manufacturer rep and get an honest answer to this issue. Let me know what they say!
    Weather the heat is from a gas furnace or a heat pump, the moisture in the house is not destroyed by the heat.

    Heat pumps have been used in PA for over 40 years.
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  2. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
    Posts
    4,517
    Quote Originally Posted by beeninyourshoes View Post
    Depends actually! Let's say you leave for a week and put the heat on 55 for that week...you come home one night in February in a New England winter. Think a 300 heat pump will heat your home that night with a 25 ambient? Now let's take the SAME scenario and hit the same home the same night with a 3000 degree nat gas furnace w a comercial Honeywell true steam ($ if u install yourself = 9 gallons of water a day) humidifier. That 3000 heat is DRY , so it must be humidified. That same home will be 72 within 3 hours; I kid you not. I DISAGREE with heat pumps in the north east. Sorry & I don't care who it pisses off. If u run a heat pump constantly without leaving? Ok maybe, but it's going to cost you $$$$ way more than gas will. This is JUST plain common sence. The problem is that common sence is the least of the seances! So I'll spell it out in plain English for you. 300 degrees is 10% of 3000 degrees. Get it now? The guy above here who said he tore out his oil furnace for a heat pump who lives in the N east??? Wait till Jan / Feb comes! They put electric heat here in S Florida since the begining of time for a reason. Then they first burned coal then oil in the N east for a reason. Probably because the 300 degrees electric OR a heat pump kicks out won't cut it up there. Now redundancy, dual stage , whatever U call it...... Heat pump w a gas furnace? = OK. But most heat pumps have electric as "emergency" or dual, or backup heat. Sure gas prices skyrocketed. But us nat gas 10 times the cost than electricity? And 10 is a NICE round figure. I lived in S Florida all my life & Mass all my life. I think this is right there for anyone to see if you just think it through. Call ANY manufacturer rep and get an honest answer to this issue. Let me know what they say!

    talk about being misinformed
    if a furnace gas or oil ran at 3000* i think i would be running realy fast also while the fire department was on its way
    flue gas depending on age and fuel is between 90* and 600* and air temp for the average gas or oil furnace is between 125 and 180* and heat pump at 25* r-22 is about 90 and r=410a is about 105 witch is enough to heat any house till the btu load is to great for it to keep up
    if you have a 36,000 btu heat pump and the house needs 60,000 this is when the secondary will kick in because you now need more then a heat pump can deliver.
    please do your home work

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Quote Originally Posted by rikmeister View Post
    i live in the poconos of pennsyltucky and it gets cold here. and my heat works great. have it for 19 yrs now and am upgrading due to increased efficiency of the newer models and mine is gettin old now. will either go geo or with a new heat pump with inverter technology.
    If you have enough tax liability to take advantage of the 30% tax credit, geo is the best investment right now. Talk to an hydrogeologist about doing a two well open system in your area. Wells can be drilled as close as ten feet apart as long as the dump well is on the lower part of the rock fractures so as to not cross contaminate the supply water.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Quote Originally Posted by beeninyourshoes View Post
    Depends actually! Let's say you leave for a week and put the heat on 55 for that week...you come home one night in February in a New England winter. Think a 300 heat pump will heat your home that night with a 25 ambient? Now let's take the SAME scenario and hit the same home the same night with a 3000 degree nat gas furnace w a comercial Honeywell true steam ($ if u install yourself = 9 gallons of water a day) humidifier. That 3000 heat is DRY , so it must be humidified. That same home will be 72 within 3 hours; I kid you not. I DISAGREE with heat pumps in the north east. Sorry & I don't care who it pisses off. If u run a heat pump constantly without leaving? Ok maybe, but it's going to cost you $$$$ way more than gas will. This is JUST plain common sence. The problem is that common sence is the least of the seances! So I'll spell it out in plain English for you. 300 degrees is 10% of 3000 degrees. Get it now? The guy above here who said he tore out his oil furnace for a heat pump who lives in the N east??? Wait till Jan / Feb comes! They put electric heat here in S Florida since the begining of time for a reason. Then they first burned coal then oil in the N east for a reason. Probably because the 300 degrees electric OR a heat pump kicks out won't cut it up there. Now redundancy, dual stage , whatever U call it...... Heat pump w a gas furnace? = OK. But most heat pumps have electric as "emergency" or dual, or backup heat. Sure gas prices skyrocketed. But us nat gas 10 times the cost than electricity? And 10 is a NICE round figure. I lived in S Florida all my life & Mass all my life. I think this is right there for anyone to see if you just think it through. Call ANY manufacturer rep and get an honest answer to this issue. Let me know what they say!
    I was a manufacturer's rep for over a decade, and I say you have no clue as to anything you have stated here. Heat is heat, there is no dry heat. Heat pumps work just fine up into Canada.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    If you have enough tax liability to take advantage of the 30% tax credit, geo is the best investment right now. Talk to an hydrogeologist about doing a two well open system in your area. Wells can be drilled as close as ten feet apart as long as the dump well is on the lower part of the rock fractures so as to not cross contaminate the supply water.
    My CPA guy told me geo is way up the ladder in terms of labor which wont be covered with fed. credits. Just too darn costly.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Quote Originally Posted by wisepole View Post
    My CPA guy told me geo is way up the ladder in terms of labor which wont be covered with fed. credits. Just too darn costly.
    Get another CPA. The entire total cost of the geo system, including all needed groundwork, is considered in the tax credit.

    If your total cost for a completed geo system is $20k, then you have tax credits of $6k which do not need to be used all in one year. Now you have decreased that system cost to $14k and have a ground system guaranteed for 50 years. If after 25 years, you need to replace the geothermal unit, you only have the cost of the unit, not the groundwork.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Eastern Shore, MD
    Posts
    799
    Quote Originally Posted by wisepole View Post
    My CPA guy told me geo is way up the ladder in terms of labor which wont be covered with fed. credits. Just too darn costly.
    time for a new CPA. its 30% off of the entire invoice...even if it includes lanspacing after the rough grading

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    170
    How much land area is normally required? Just a basic ball-park would be great. I have not much....

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,305

    Cool dual personality?

    "I lived in S Florida all my life & Mass all my life."

    One shoe in Fla and one in Mass? Sorry, couldn't help myself.

    Uh, I don't think you're gonna find a lot of support on your math around here. Sounds like you're mixing flame temps with supply air temps. Besides, there is no much more that goes into overall efficiency.

    Seeing a lot of heat pumps going in around SE Pa with combustion backup such NG or LP. Haven't see an oil fired b/u yet. Thermopride heat pump?

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Quote Originally Posted by wisepole View Post
    How much land area is normally required? Just a basic ball-park would be great. I have not much....
    Too many factors to consider. In parts of PA, in the mountain areas, you can have two wells drilled 10 feet apart for an open loop system. Every situation is at least a little different.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Houston area
    Posts
    1,493
    Think what you could do with a 3000 degree furnace. Make horseshoes, cook hot dogs faster than a microwave, get rid of the clothes dryer....endless possibilities really.

    With all the discussion of what's cheaper, HP, resistance heat, oil or gas one thing that hasn't been brought up is the cost per btu. It varies wildly geographically.

    As for the original question, a HP in NJ, of course it will work. Will it need some type of supplemental backup, of course it will. Is electric resistance cheaper than gas or vice versa, depends on your area's cost per KWH, cost per 1000 cubic feet of natural gas or cost per gallon of propane.

    As far as electric backup heat or any other electric heater they are 100% efficient.
    The picture in my avatar is of the Houston Ship Channel and was taken from my backyard. I like to sit outside and slap mosquitos while watching countless supertankers, barges and cargo ships of every shape and size carry all sorts of deadly toxins to and fro. It's really beautiful at times.....just don't eat the three eyed fish....

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  12. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    999
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post


    Cain is able! 9-9-9

    I'm glad you clarified that.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Quote Originally Posted by ampulman View Post
    I'm glad you clarified that.
    DARN! I was hoping no one caught that. I even thought about the two spellings when I first wrote it and still put the wrong one up.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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