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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    greenville , sc
    Posts
    718
    a htpmp will work fine... if i can recommend something though...

    go with a higher seer/.... maybe around 18 or more...

    and a properly sized and installed htpmp can very easily compete with a fuel system well in to the lower temps.
    catch a man a fish , feed him for a day.
    teach a man to fish , ruin a good business opportunity.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Albuquerque NM
    Posts
    2,485
    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    With a Heat Pump/Gas system why are heat strips even needed at all?
    Assuming this is a real (not rhetorical) question, no you wouldn't use heat strips with a Heat Pump/Gas (a.k.a. "dual fuel") system.

    I once asked, for a dual fuel system, if it wouldn't be nice to have electric heat strips to activate only during the defrost cycle, but I don't remember the answer. My thinking was this. Since defrost only lasts a few minutes (maybe much less), the gas furnace is just getting warmed up and then has to shut down right away so is very inefficient for that short time. I guess since nobody seems to do it this way, it's just not cost effective.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    greenville , sc
    Posts
    718
    Quote Originally Posted by garya505 View Post
    Assuming this is a real (not rhetorical) question, no you wouldn't use heat strips with a Heat Pump/Gas (a.k.a. "dual fuel") system.

    I once asked, for a dual fuel system, if it wouldn't be nice to have electric heat strips to activate only during the defrost cycle, but I don't remember the answer. My thinking was this. Since defrost only lasts a few minutes (maybe much less), the gas furnace is just getting warmed up and then has to shut down right away so is very inefficient for that short time. I guess since nobody seems to do it this way, it's just not cost effective.
    what i dont get or atleast never understood is this, why run the IDF in defrost at all?
    catch a man a fish , feed him for a day.
    teach a man to fish , ruin a good business opportunity.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    1,384
    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    With a Heat Pump/Gas system why are heat strips even needed at all?
    The suggestion was to compare all electric to gas. You will need to know the proper size electric elements to add to the heat pump for the comparison.
    Climate Control Solutions for your Home or Office

    Serving Northeast Philadelphia and Surrounding Areas

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,221
    Quote Originally Posted by garya505 View Post
    Assuming this is a real (not rhetorical) question, no you wouldn't use heat strips with a Heat Pump/Gas (a.k.a. "dual fuel") system.

    I once asked, for a dual fuel system, if it wouldn't be nice to have electric heat strips to activate only during the defrost cycle, but I don't remember the answer. My thinking was this. Since defrost only lasts a few minutes (maybe much less), the gas furnace is just getting warmed up and then has to shut down right away so is very inefficient for that short time. I guess since nobody seems to do it this way, it's just not cost effective.
    Interesting concept, although my furnace rarely runs more than 5 minutes at a time unless it's really cold outside (it's WAY oversized). I was under the impression that oversizing furnaces hurts comfort more than the gas bill. Then the question becomes is the short furnace cycle more expensive than using electric heat.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    170
    I learnt a lot of things today except one. Having already a conventional heating furnace can one install now a secondary/primary heat source called heat pump or would I need to upgrade my furnace too?

    Finally, I not that "hurt" with heating costs since it runs on gas as much I am hurt with high electrical bills during summer. Is there something called cool pump? Hope all understands the analogy here...

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
    Posts
    10,339
    Quote Originally Posted by comfortdoc View Post
    The suggestion was to compare all electric to gas. You will need to know the proper size electric elements to add to the heat pump for the comparison.
    thank you
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,943
    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    Interesting concept, although my furnace rarely runs more than 5 minutes at a time unless it's really cold outside (it's WAY oversized). I was under the impression that oversizing furnaces hurts comfort more than the gas bill. Then the question becomes is the short furnace cycle more expensive than using electric heat.
    If you have an oversized furnace, that is even more of a reason to have a heat pump to take care of the heating unless it is too cold for the heat pump to do the entire job. That way, the furnace at least gets to run long enough to be somewhat efficient and not be eaten up by condensate caused by short cycles.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
    Posts
    10,339
    Quote Originally Posted by wisepole View Post
    I learnt a lot of things today except one. Having already a conventional heating furnace can one install now a secondary/primary heat source called heat pump or would I need to upgrade my furnace too?

    Finally, I not that "hurt" with heating costs since it runs on gas as much I am hurt with high electrical bills during summer. Is there something called cool pump? Hope all understands the analogy here...
    air conditioning will be the same, whether you buy a heat pump system or another straight air conditioner. A heat pump system is an air condtioner, witha three way valve that reverses the refrigerant flow in the winter time to allow for heating of the bulding instead of cooling.

    upgrading to a newer system will gain efficiency and can help reduce those expensive summer bills.

    upgrading to a newer furnace can help in reducing gas consumption, if you currently have an older 80% efficient furnace, going to 90-97% efficiency would help reduce usage cost. And then, using that newer furnace with a Heat pump system, you would further reduce the gas consumption.

    how old is your current system? Through general wear and tear, a system typically loses about 3% of efficiency a year, so after ten years, you've lost a net of 30%.
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,943
    Quote Originally Posted by wisepole View Post
    I learnt a lot of things today except one. Having already a conventional heating furnace can one install now a secondary/primary heat source called heat pump or would I need to upgrade my furnace too?

    Finally, I not that "hurt" with heating costs since it runs on gas as much I am hurt with high electrical bills during summer. Is there something called cool pump? Hope all understands the analogy here...
    Yes, a "cool pump" is the opposite of a "heat pump". Every compressor bearing system is a cool pump. Only if it has the capabilities to properly reverse the refrigerant cycle is it considered a heat pump, which is also a cool pump.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hometown, Pennsyltucky
    Posts
    5
    i live in the poconos of pennsyltucky and it gets cold here. and my heat works great. have it for 19 yrs now and am upgrading due to increased efficiency of the newer models and mine is gettin old now. will either go geo or with a new heat pump with inverter technology.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    South Florida - SC
    Posts
    17
    Depends actually! Let's say you leave for a week and put the heat on 55 for that week...you come home one night in February in a New England winter. Think a 300 heat pump will heat your home that night with a 25 ambient? Now let's take the SAME scenario and hit the same home the same night with a 3000 degree nat gas furnace w a comercial Honeywell true steam ($ if u install yourself = 9 gallons of water a day) humidifier. That 3000 heat is DRY , so it must be humidified. That same home will be 72 within 3 hours; I kid you not. I DISAGREE with heat pumps in the north east. Sorry & I don't care who it pisses off. If u run a heat pump constantly without leaving? Ok maybe, but it's going to cost you $$$$ way more than gas will. This is JUST plain common sence. The problem is that common sence is the least of the seances! So I'll spell it out in plain English for you. 300 degrees is 10% of 3000 degrees. Get it now? The guy above here who said he tore out his oil furnace for a heat pump who lives in the N east??? Wait till Jan / Feb comes! They put electric heat here in S Florida since the begining of time for a reason. Then they first burned coal then oil in the N east for a reason. Probably because the 300 degrees electric OR a heat pump kicks out won't cut it up there. Now redundancy, dual stage , whatever U call it...... Heat pump w a gas furnace? = OK. But most heat pumps have electric as "emergency" or dual, or backup heat. Sure gas prices skyrocketed. But us nat gas 10 times the cost than electricity? And 10 is a NICE round figure. I lived in S Florida all my life & Mass all my life. I think this is right there for anyone to see if you just think it through. Call ANY manufacturer rep and get an honest answer to this issue. Let me know what they say!
    Last edited by beenthere; 10-12-2011 at 05:04 AM. Reason: price

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    644
    Quote Originally Posted by wisepole View Post
    I learnt a lot of things today except one. Having already a conventional heating furnace can one install now a secondary/primary heat source called heat pump or would I need to upgrade my furnace too?

    Finally, I not that "hurt" with heating costs since it runs on gas as much I am hurt with high electrical bills during summer. Is there something called cool pump? Hope all understands the analogy here...
    A "cool pump" is just an AC. A heat pump is just an AC that reverses direction in essence and makes the outdoor coil the cold side and indoor the hot side instead of vice versa with an AC.

    The only way I can think of to substantially lower your cooling bill in the summer is with a ground source heat pump, but installation prices are higher. Basically all a heat pump does is pump heat from inside to the outside or the outside to the inside. Long story short, ground source heat pumps are much more efficient at doing this. They can cut energy consumption in half maybe even better. But they cost more to install. There are many ways to do it, but basically they drill either holes or trenches in your yard, and bury some pipe(through which a nontoxic fluid that wont freeze easily runs). Instead of using hot air in the summer as your heat sink, they use the cool ground (and the ground is warmer than the outside air in the winter). Much easier to move heat from hot to cold than from hot to hotter. Might be worth looking in to.

    That would be my first choice, but installation costs can be prohibitive. But the same with solar panels. You have to look at initial cost vs long term savings, and energy is going to be doing nothing but going up. In essence, it is the equivalent of installing solar panels (saving energy and producing energy have the same effect on your utility bills)

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