I Want to Remove My Condenser

[adamt]

I called the company that diagnosed my compressor as bad this summer to have them come out and evacuate the system so I could move the condenser and pour a new patio. I was surprised to hear the estimate(phone) to be over three times the cost of diagnosing the a/c system in the first place. As a Tradesman I was expecting that this would be one of those things that is purposefully kept inexpensive to encourage people to do the right thing.
Should I call around, does this service vary a lot in cost, or just wait to see if I can afford a new a/c next summer?

AdamT

[wahoo]

To many variables in your post to guess. Are you moving it to a new location? Can they disconnect, and then reconnect on the same trip? Can they save and re-use the freon? If they are making two trips, do you expect them to come back for free? Do you want the cheapest job, not necessarily the best job so the unit will fail quickly? When we get a call like this, we assume two trips along with evacuation, silver solder, some lineset, purging, and a new freon filter to protect the AC unit. I'm sure some would do far less than this for much less money and leave you with whatever happens. Usually the homeowner wants the unit left unhooked until they finish their work, and then we return (for a fee) and finish the re-connection. It might actually be cheaper to move the location, and that way it can be done all at once!! I'm assuming from your post that this unit has been operating and you've just recently replaced the compressor? Might be important that this is done properly!

[brijess]

It sounds like the unit doesn't work. Have them remove and cart away the old unit. This should entail recovering the refrigerant, cutting the pies, and disconnecting the electric. About an hr labor. Have them seal the pipes and make sure the electric is left safe. They may be willing to credit the fee towards new instal in the spring, I would.

[mlc1955]

i agree with brijess, not much to it and i also would apply most of that billing to the replacement unit. thats only good bussiness. definately shop!

[cuchulain]

ok so you want them to do 3x the work for the same amount of money....
think about it, he came out and Dx a bad compressor (approx 1hr of labor only). Removing a condenser and reconnecting after a slab is poured.

1: Pump system down
2: unsweat lines (welding kit involved here, nitrogen involved)
3: removing electrical
4: Sealing lines (depending on how long till they can reconnect, also evacuating and filling with nitrogen, so Weld kit involved, vacuum pump involved, line taps involved, nitrogen involved)
5:Moving unit

all that just to remove the unit on the first trip...now for second trip

1: move unit to slab
2: unseal lines and resweat to condenser (weld kit involved, nitrogen involved)
3: vacuum system down to remove air (vacuum pump and nitrogen involved)
4: hook up electrical
5: re-insulate copper lines (insulation and tape involved)
6: anchor unit (at least here, required per insurance)
7: open lines up and make sure charge is correct

That's the 2nd trip...so a Dx of a compressor ~1hr of just the mechanic and tools, the moving of the condenser 2 separate trips and probably ~4hrs total in labor plus alot of material usage.

[adamt]

The unit is 10-12 years old, I wouldn't reuse the lineset , it has a blown compressor, it's oversized, the soldering was done incorrectly and it's directly under the main circuit panel for the house.
I called the same tech that diagnosed the blown compressor in hopes that he would remember enough about the site to give an accurate estimate without making an extra trip.I wasn't expecting him to ask to see Benjamin Franklin, twice.
We've lived here for 5 years and last summer was only the second time we used the a/c. We might not replace it at all. If we did replace it, I would want it in another location.

[adamt]

I just realized that this is the wrong forum.

Mods, could you please move this to the ask the pros forum?

Adam

[wahoo]

If you are a "tradesman" which I interpret to mean you're in this trade, then why aren't you doing this yourself?

[adamt]

Different trade.

[hvacvegas]

The way I take this:

Is you want the tech to remove the old unit, and trash it. This is because you want the unit in another location, and it's bad anyways. You want it out of the way now, because you want to pour a patio.

When it comes time to get the new air conditioner, you are willing to accept a different charge/installation cost, ontop of what you've already paid.

Is this correct?

[adamt]

Pretty much except that I may not replace it at all and if I do I can get up to $1,500 rebate from Excel for "trade in". Right now the only function the condenser is serving is as an obstacle. I don't want him to take it away, I just want the refrigerant recovered so that I can move it out of the way.

[Chris_Worthington]

I just realized that this is the wrong forum.

Mods, could you please move this to the ask the pros forum?

Adam

Done, Carry on

[bmathews]

Purposefully kept inexpensive to encourage people to do the right thing? Never heard that one before. Why do we care what you do with your house, car or whatever you own? We all have to make a living. Doing the right thing so you can save a few $$$ doesn't pay my mortgage, feed my family or put gas in my car.

[heaterman]

Well, I can see your position as far as putting the two dead presidents into having a dead horse cut from the herd as is were. The real world truth is there is no real compensation for the tech (and his company) other than the upfront money for reclaiming the refrigerant (which costs me to dispose of) and leaving you the carcass. If you were going to install a new system and he was getting the job, there would probably be no charge for this service at all, at least there wouldn't be if I were in that type of situation. You already know your alternative to this and I applaud your desire to do this in the proper and legal manner.

[wraujr]

So to clarify.

All you want:
Tech come to house that is less than 5 miles from his office.
Hook up and remove charge (he has to pay to dispose).
Cap off lineset in case you reuse (involves time and trouble of brazing).
Leave condenser right where it sits.

And if I inderstand he wants two Bennies.

Settle for one Bennie and cap the line yourself.

Hey, I just had two guys quote 3.5 Bennies to haul off one pickup load of brush. They did claim the would have to pay a dumping fee of 1/3 that amount.

[HVACTechNC]

It sounds like we are discussing pricing here.....

......

...........

Yep, definately discussing pricing...

I dont know about where you are, but a service charge would cover 30-50% of the cost you mentioned. That is just the cost to drive the van into your driveway. So, by my math you are getting a fair deal here. At my company service charge + 1-2 hours of labor + brazing supplies and materials would total.......

Oh wait, I can't discuss pricing.....

Well, lets just say more than you said.

Ask if they will credit the cost to a new unit when the time comes, and keep on rollin...

[adamt]

I'm not sure where the cost of brazing is coming from, do you guys always cap linesets that aren't going to be reused? I just don't want to be the guy that just releases the freon into the atmosphere when I move the large paper weight out of the way.
I'm not trying to discuss price, I just wanted to know how if their was a hidden difficulty in recovering freon that would justify their wanting to charge me over 3x what they charged for a travel and diagnostic visit. If you guys tell me that it takes 2 hrs +travel to evacuate a 30' lineset, I'll probably call him back.
BTW I asked the company to also give an estimate on replacing the ac system, they never called back. I am getting the impression that they just aren't interested in my money.
Adam

[heaterman]

If the compressor was not DOA, this would be a simple procedure and you would be able to keep your disconnected unit AND your refrigerant. I guess that I am looking at my cost. Driving 5 miles or 20 has no real impact on cost. Overhead does. Everything costs money for a business. You seem like a reasonable and smart guy so all I will say is no matter what I do during a given day, I have to pay my business expenses no matter what. How I or anyone in business divides these expenses between customers is not all that easy to arrive at. Take the cost of the truck (including fuel, insurance, upkeeps and depreciation), the equipment (reclaim machines are pricey so are all the tools on the truck), expenses associated with the actual place of business (mortgage, rent, insurance, utilities, office help), the employee (you know) and then incidentals say like keeping my certificates and licenses up to date and in force (that alone last year cost just me 2K). Then you divide this by however you want be it by the hour, day, month or job and then apply it along with the actual expenses for that one job which would be material and actual labor along with misc. stuff like disposal fees. After all this, the company would like to make something, profit as it were. I don't think the implied cost was all that much out of line.

[adamt]

I just called another company, this one non Union, and they want twice as much as the first guy. I may just pay my Father in Law to come out here from Mn to do it, he still has his tools and EPA card. The price is the same and he can spend more time with his new Grandaughters.

Adam

[wraujr]

It is tough trying to do the right thing. Especially since there are techs that have been venting to the atmosphere for years or the venting from leaking coils. I myself had a unit that went thru 6 lbs of R22 in two years.

If it had been the condensor coil that had failed there would be nothing to recover and you could move it yourself as you have said the unit and the lineset are never to be used again, so a tubing cutter and zip you're done.

If you don't care about the lineset there should be no problem moving it around when pouring the patio. Just be careful not to break the lineset connection.