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Thread: Goodman vs York

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    7

    Goodman vs York

    I am in NJ replacing 22 year old - York systems - 2 zone systems installed by the builder in 2800sq ft home:
    Original:
    Zone 1 - York 105,000 btu with 3.5 ton AC
    Zone 2- York 90,000 btu with 2.5 ton AC

    We have really not had any trouble with these units.

    I have 2 bids I am trying to compare. Assuming both installers are equally capable & reputable, can you give me any feedback on how these bids compare to help me make a choice?

    Bid 1:
    YORK
    Zone:1
    YCJF42 Condenser 16 SEER 3.5 Tons
    CE48 Evaporator coil
    TM9X100C20MP11 furnace w/high eff motor 100,000 BTU 95.5% AFUE

    Zone2
    YCJF30 Condenser 16 SEER 2.5 Tons
    CE36 Evaporator coil
    TM9X080C16P11 furnace w/high eff motor 80,000 BTU 95.5% AFUE

    Warranties:
    10 years York parts
    5 years York labor
    10 years York Compressor
    Lifetime York Heat Exchanger

    Bid2:
    Goodman
    Zone1:
    SSX16036, CAPF, TXV3N4 - 16 SEER 3 TON condencer & matching indoor cooling coil.
    GMVC9509C two-stage furnace w/variable speed blower 90,000 BTU 95% AFUE

    Zone 2:
    SSX16030, CAPF, TX3N4 - 16 SEER 2.5 TON condencer & matching indoor cooling coil.
    GMVC9509C two-stage furnace w/variable speed blower 90,000 BTU 95% AFUE

    Warranties:
    10 Years Parts & Labor with Lifetime on Compressor & Heat Exchangers.


    Both bids include full install, new programmable thermostats and PVC venting, copper linesets, mounting pads, fused service disconnects, removal of old equipment.


    My Observations:
    1) The YORK bid is about $1,000 less. (not giving actual costs of job, hope this information is ok)

    2) The Goodman bid has two-stage furnaces

    3) Goodman has 10 year labor vs York 5 year labor

    4) I have had 22 years of nearly trouble-free YORK systems. I had really never hear of Goodman, but...a lot can change in 22 years with a manufacturer and I am guessing that just because a homeowner hasn't heard of Goodman doesn't mean they are inferior.

    I feel comfortable doing business and have referrals for both companies on their installs and service, so I think it is coming down to the best system for the money.

    So, if you have any comments about how these systems stack up against each other, I would appreciate hearing from you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,148
    snj

    Without an onsite inspection and a professionally performed manual J, I would say you are being oversized both heating and cooling.

    2800 sq ft

    5 1/2-6 tons of cooling
    180 KBTU of heating

    what am I missing here?

    Don't make a move without written load calc in hand and a thorough inspection of your ductwork system.

    IMO

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    4,842
    The TM9 series York is a 2 stage furnace. Your new furnace(s) are considerably more efficient than the old ones, when you compare the output capacity of the old to the new, you will see that these new units are oversized for your present structure. Same goes for the AC. The only way to know by how much is to have a manual J heat loss/gain done. As far as which brand, I handle York and service both, obviously I would go with the York. You should be able to buy up for 10 years labor.
    A good HVAC tech knows how, an educated HVAC tech knows why!

    DEM


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Portland OR
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    1,954
    Something seems vastly oversized. I don't know your NJ design conditions very well, but the highest otudoor design temp I can find is 90 degrees and here in Portland we are at 89 degrees and would put a 3 or maybe 3.5 ton unit on the house, not two units that are 3 tons each!
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    7
    Interesting,

    I have had at least 6 estimates and not one mentioned doing a manual J heat loss/gain. I guess I will have to call them back and ask about it.

    I certainly don't want to spend any more than needed on a system and don't want to be over or under sized.

    As far a Goodman brand vs. York brand, any unbiased opinions?

    Thanks for the quick replies!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    769
    Quote Originally Posted by snj2000 View Post
    Interesting,

    I have had at least 6 estimates and not one mentioned doing a manual J heat loss/gain. I guess I will have to call them back and ask about it.

    I certainly don't want to spend any more than needed on a system and don't want to be over or under sized.

    As far a Goodman brand vs. York brand, any unbiased opinions?

    Thanks for the quick replies!
    I would go with YORK. I have worked on them both and feel York is a better built unit. I know others will disagree but that's my opinion. I am onboard with the "seems oversized" consensus

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Littleton, CO
    Posts
    263
    Seems like the systems are oversized. Both York and Goodman are good brands. I would go with the Goodman brand due to the warranties. Your receive a 10 year warranty with online registration instead of paying for an additional 5 years through York. This is my opinon. Would have a load calc performed before final install.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    4,842
    You don't pay for the additional 5 years from York. You register on line and have a full 10 years on parts including a limited lifetime warranty on the HX.
    A good HVAC tech knows how, an educated HVAC tech knows why!

    DEM


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    7
    Both the York and Goodman guys are standing by their sizing.

    Goodman said he would come out and measure and load it into the computer but says he finds that his estimates are accurate enough, the York guy says it is impossible to do a manual J on a 22 year old house because of not knowing the r factor of the insulation and loss around doors and windows etc. He says he uses some satellite computer program to estimate. Perhaps this is a red flag on him?

    Heaterman said that the York is two stage? Excuse me for not knowing but does two stage mean variable speed blowers AND variable gas Not sure if I am saying that right but I thought 2 stage meant it burns less gass unless called for more. If that is the case, I didn't think the York quote had that feature?

    Thanks

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North East Ohio
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    769
    I would call this a possible red flag on both of them. It is possible to do a load calc on any house regardless of age. Is there insulation in the exterior walls? Attic? Single pane or double pane windows? with this type of information you can do a load calculation. The YORK model numbers you gave are a 2 stage gas furnacewith the X-13 blower. The YORK 2 stage means it will burn at 65% and jump up to 100% when it needs to, saving you $$$ in natural gas costs and the X-13 blower costs less to operate at slower speeds. You do not pay extra for the additional 5 years of parts warranty. You would pay extra for a labor warranty.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
    Posts
    352
    Just an opinion, but I would purchase the York system if it was for my house, and those were the two options. York makes excellent furnaces.

    Definately get a manual J done. Either call back the contractor you liked the best of the ones you have had and let them know that you liked the proposal they did but you are not moving forward until they provide a manual j report, or start over and find someone who will provide one. 180,000 btus for a 2800 sf house is crazy unless there is a hole in the roof or something.
    It's not rocket-science...

    It's electromechanical thermodynamic engineering

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,767
    On the coldest nights, do both of your furnaces have to run 24/7 to maintain the temp you set your thermostat to? Or do they still only run for a few minutes each.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,926
    I am in NJ replacing 22 year old - York systems - 2 zone systems installed by the builder in 2800sq ft home:
    Original:
    Zone 1 - York 105,000 btu with 3.5 ton AC
    Zone 2- York 90,000 btu with 2.5 ton AC
    Wow, must be the leakiest house with no insulation every built!

    Here, take a 2800 sq ft ranch or 2 story with average insulation and windows, even an standard 105K furnace would heat the entire house down to -10 to -15 out. At most, the whole house would have a single 3.5 ton A/C. If the house faced north or south, probably a 3 ton. Can't fathom why you need so much heating & cooling unless there is something very special about the place.

    Oh, the satellite sizing like one of our moron competitors used recently. House had a 3 ton for 30 years and based on this satellite, insisted it HAD to have a 3.5 ton or the place wouldn't cool. Well, guess what, it has OUR 2.5 ton and did just fine in near 100° weather right after we put it in.

    Oh, the satellite sizing that says my 970 sq ft house is 1600 sq ft? Boy, that's sure accurate!

    Can't do a manual J on a 22 year old house? L A Z Y and L Y I N G.

    Sorry for the tirate, I have a low threshold today for hacks & idiots.

    Glad you came to us, get it done right.

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