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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,066
    I've been told by good authority that we wont even use refrigeration in the future.

    we will be be eating dehydrated powder and jerky

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Alright.

    Is there a value in monitoring product temperature? Sure. The product is the ONLY reason that we have refrigeration. If there isn't any product in the case, then we might as well shut it down. 100% energy savings.

    Now. How will monitoring product temperature help us to save energy? By cycling the refrigeration based upon product temp rather than on air temp? BAD IDEA.

    We'll see wider temperature swings and more energy will be consumed in pull-down after pull-down rather than a steady, even temperature control.

    There's another reason that this is not going to work out.

    Anyone who has worked in the retail refrigeration sector for any length of time will know that the employees try to CHEAT. They'll shove warm product into a case any time they think they can get away with it.

    What that means is that this thing is useless. It will be reading the "steady state" temperature of the case. The temp that product would be if everything was done properly. Since everything is almost never done properly, it's a big waste of money.


    Of course, those that deal in 'thermal inertia' and other equally spooky and mystical language have great sales pitches and those that are in the market to buy such things have defective BS detectors. A match made in P.T. Barnum's version of heaven if there ever was.
    We are seeing these high mass temp sensors being installed in a convenience store chain that we service. The control scheme is to pair the high mass sensor with a traditional air temp sensor and average the two to get a value that is then used to control the on/off of the LLSV or compressor. The individual values are also set to alarm if too warm for too long. It does cause runtimes to be longer but we typically do not see that because the differential is set tighter. After a defrost recovery (of the product) is quicker though because the high mass sensor keeps the refrigeration on longer. Energy savings? I doubt it, but it does have some advantages in keeping the product cold which IS our primary objective. BTW I do not think one company has the lock on these because I have seen several manufacturers.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,066
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_scheel View Post
    The individual values are also set to alarm if too warm for too long.
    The air sensor will win every time.

    Due to lack of what I believe they called "Thermal Inertia"

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Tampa Fl
    Posts
    105
    What is the new legislation and regulation which comes into act on July 4th 2012 ?

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Cairo, Egypt, Egypt
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    I read until I hit the phrase "thermal inertia"

    Then something shorted out in my brain and I decided that brain cells would commit mass suicide if I read any further.
    your word actually too hard

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,575
    Quote Originally Posted by elheese View Post
    your word actually too hard


    What point are you trying to convey with this post?

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Cairo, Egypt, Egypt
    Posts
    31

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phase Loss View Post
    you guys need to unlock your mind and venture into the future where people enjoy melted ice cream and bloody browned meat.
    dear prof
    is it any new method to recover bad oil that scape in to evaporator coil ?

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,066
    Are you OK??

    That's 2 nonsensical posts you have here.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Cairo, Egypt, Egypt
    Posts
    31

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phase Loss View Post
    Are you OK??

    That's 2 nonsensical posts you have here.
    i think that my words are uderstood in the bad side
    what is the confliction that you get from it?

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    U.S
    Posts
    11
    I thought this information would give you a good idea of what we have seen as recorded data from a plant which has had Endocube installed throughout the facility.

    Large Refrigerated Warehouse-

    900 Hp. High Stage 2 - Stage
    225 Hp. Booster R-717( Ammonia ) 4- Penthouse Freezer zones / -3* 1- Hanging Evaporator Freezer / -4* 5- Hanging Evaporators / 40* dock
    VFD Driven motors
    6- Hanging Evaporators / 28* cooler 10- Hanging Evaporators / 36* cooler 2- Hanging Evaporators / 55* Rooms



    System initially ran defrost 0n 18 to 24 liquid run time. After installing Endocubes on all evaporators in January defrost times were initially extended to 36 Hrs. with no frost build up after one week. The next test was done with defrost times at 96 Hrs. results the same. Final test was done at 168Hrs for 3- weeks, results same as above. Location in the Midwest United States

    Due to extending defrost times system operated smoothly with consistent room temps within 2* to 3* of set point. Compressors did not experience large load swings due minimal hot gas defrost cycles. Over all the location experienced a kW reduction of 5% to10% and ambient was approximately 25% warmer than the previous year.


    Note: Defrost times will vary with temperature and humidity of location but appears minimal expectation is double with cube over standard control.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    FLORIDA
    Posts
    1,163
    I call Bull****

    you cant eliminate defrost with a stat
    butlow humidity can help and the endo do do
    cant
    once you think you've seen it all
    (THINK AGAIN)
    I would rather work for free than be look upon as a thief!!!!!

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    FLORIDA
    Posts
    1,163
    I call Bullsheet

    you cant eliminate defrost with a stat
    butlow humidity can help and the endo do do
    cant
    once you think you've seen it all
    (THINK AGAIN)
    I would rather work for free than be look upon as a thief!!!!!

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,575
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanicalman1
    System initially ran defrost 0n 18 to 24 liquid run time. After installing Endocubes on all evaporators in January defrost times were initially extended to 36 Hrs. with no frost build up after one week. The next test was done with defrost times at 96 Hrs. results the same. Final test was done at 168Hrs for 3- weeks, results same as above. Location in the Midwest United States

    Let me know how that 96 hour defrost interval works out for ya come July.....


    Snake oil peddler.

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