Has anyone had any positive or negative experience using this or like products?
I've seen CompressSheild and PROATEQ, but all the information that I've seen shows that it doesn't save energy as they claim.
Does anyone know of any reports that validate savings?
I'm at a standstill and need some help. I'll be researching...
Thanks Bob's Testing
dont use it it is a sham.had alarge commercial account bite that hook and now all their units are full of acid found by oil analysis,moisture levels in samples were in limits.now proateq is saying that the rl32h ref oil is breaking down.if it worked dont you think all the manufactures would be using it in the great race for the best KW per ton ie trane,carrier,york,and mcquay
I moved this thread to General area
bob, you will get better coverage in this section
proateq and Compressheid
Compress Sheild is a chlorinated product and will eventually burn out your compressors. (bad stuff)
PROATEQ is the only Approved Non-Chlorinated product that has shown in federal studies to increase efficency from sixteen to twenty-nine percent.
We are pleased.
Maybe PROA does work.!!!
i have read a great deal about the thoughts of Refrigeration engineers about Polarized Refrigerant Oil Additives., Many thoughts have been to simply write this stuff off as "snake oil". Some of you guys have backed the science behind the theory but doubted that they would work in practise and others (not many) have supported them.
Last month i witnessed the use of 30ml of a product called Permafrost being applied to a 5 year old split system 8KW air-conditioner. The ambient outside temperature was 30 degrees celsius (yes i'm metric). We had an infra red thermal gun aimed at a set point on the vent outlet. The airconditioner had been running for 1 hour and the compressor was running. The permafrost was administered and within 5 minutes the temperature had dropped to minus 2 degrees celsius a temperature difference of 9 degrees.
It was one of the most impressive tests i have ever witnessed. Added to this was the fact that the compressor was distinctly quieter.
Can anyone tell me what possibly could cause such a dynamic change in this split system other than what PROA's are designed to do? I am cynical and skeptical in most things, but i am afraid that seeing is believing and unless someone can tell me what else could possibly have caused the change i mentioned above, then maybe the 70% of PROA skeptics might want to re-think there position.
Am i alone in this matter or are there others out there who have witnessed PROA's in action?
Hey lucky131 if your still out there.I have reed alot about PROA and have seen compress shield in action with the same out come!
Originally Posted by lucky131
But historical evidence shows PROA to do more harm than good.
I have tested iceCOLD which is the non-toxic version (not PROA) with better results.
I operate an energy consulting company and have been looking into Thermonomics which is a PROA. I have seen it in action and it seems to provide real results. The treated units are running less, the air is colder and the clients are saving money.
Why is there such a negative connotation with this type of product? It has been proven to do no damage to equipment.
What would be the best way to help HVAC professionals feel more comfortable with a product like this. In these times, everyone should do anything they can to save energy and money!
Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
We are 'hands-on' guys. WE are the guys who have to clean up after this stuff does it's damage.. We are the guys who are on the hook for false claims and false hopes when it doesn't acheive what the customer expects it to.
Originally Posted by glitwer
To answer your question about how to get us to embrace it?
YOU WON'T. Period, end, full stop.
The product not meeting customers expectations can be dealt with by a fee model based on performance. What kind of mess have you seen these products leave? And are you talking about Thermonomics specifically?
Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm
More data, then just someone saying they have seen it in action, and it works.
Originally Posted by glitwer
Measured, and documented performance data, for the same ambient conditions without the additive.
And then measured and documented performance data with the additive.
KWHs logged by a separate meter then the building meter.
Refrigerant Temp delta across condenser coil.
Temp delta across condenser coil.
Refrigerant temp delta across evap coil.
Evap coil entering dry and wet bulb temp.
Evap coil leaving dry and wet bulb temp.
Air flow measured in CFM across the evap coil. Both before and after using the additive.
On TV, I saw a magician make a building disappear. Doesn't mean it really happened though.
The problem with PROA's is not that they are effective, it is the long term damage that is done to the system when the sulfur becomes sulfuric acid or the chlorine becomes hydrochloric acid. PROA's cannot stand alone the have to be constantly modified to not damage a system. The next generation of these type additives will be synthetic and willi not change or damage a system over the long haul. Also find out if they are covered by insurance not to damage a system and what kind of warrantee do they carry for system failure due to use of product. When that is offered there will be greater interest. I have heard of only one company that is willing to do that, and they have a major top tier Insurance company backing there product to the tune of up to $4M per system, in which the product is installed and registered. Now that we can live with!!!
Originally Posted by HMV Chopper
Wow. I don't want to use that stuff then.
Originally Posted by lucky131
The evap coil would be a block of ice in a short amount of time. Since minus 2°C, is 28.4°F. The evap coil would have had to of been colder yet. Meaning it was freezing up.
This kind of post/story is why we call it a snake oil claim.