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Thread: Goodman vs York

  1. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    7
    Thanks for all the input.

    I thought I was getting down to the end of my estimates but now I guess I have to keep going.

    I have a guy on his way over now & I will ask him how is is coming up with the size and request a load calc. I also scheduled Public Service (Out Gas & Electric provider) to give an estimate on the upgrade. I would hope that they would do a load calc and not just wing it. I will let you know how that goes.

    There are 3 other houses in my neighborhood that are the same model built the same year - 1989. Two of them have had their HVAC updated in the last couple years, I understand that they may have been oversized but I am going to visit them later today & see what they had put in and their feelings on how well they work for them.

    FYI:

    This is a 2 story house: zone 1 1st floor, zone 2 2nd floor. Insulation was R30? in the attic - About 6 inches of blown in insulation between the rafters? Never been upgraded but has compressed a bit over time.

    @Beenthere - you asked:
    "On the coldest nights, do both of your furnaces have to run 24/7 to maintain the temp you set your thermostat to? Or do they still only run for a few minutes each."

    The best answer I can give is: We run Zone 1 during the day (family room & kitchen) and Zone 2 (bedrooms) at night. In the winter we set the zone we are not using to about 58-60 then a couple hours before bed it changes to about 68. Zone 1 at bedtime goes down to 58-60 and resets to about 68 a couple hours before we wake up.

    So it would be rare that both systems are on at the same time ever but I guess on the coldest of nights, zone 1 could run at night to maintain 58 degrees.

    Thanks

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    68,095
    During the coldest days, does the first floor furnace have to run continuous to maintain temp, or does it cycle on and off.
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  3. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Hampton, GA
    Posts
    570
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Wow, must be the leakiest house with no insulation every built!

    Here, take a 2800 sq ft ranch or 2 story with average insulation and windows, even an standard 105K furnace would heat the entire house down to -10 to -15 out. At most, the whole house would have a single 3.5 ton A/C. If the house faced north or south, probably a 3 ton. Can't fathom why you need so much heating & cooling unless there is something very special about the place.

    Oh, the satellite sizing like one of our moron competitors used recently. House had a 3 ton for 30 years and based on this satellite, insisted it HAD to have a 3.5 ton or the place wouldn't cool. Well, guess what, it has OUR 2.5 ton and did just fine in near 100 weather right after we put it in.

    Oh, the satellite sizing that says my 970 sq ft house is 1600 sq ft? Boy, that's sure accurate!

    Can't do a manual J on a 22 year old house? L A Z Y and L Y I N G.

    Sorry for the tirate, I have a low threshold today for hacks & idiots.

    Glad you came to us, get it done right.
    I had walked into my hvac class and my instructor was with some guy on a laptop and they were using that satellite program! They were saying its a accepted program for manual J. LOLL and it is accepted by FPL (Florida Power and Light) as a manual J calculation. I even overheard them about getting paid to use the program. LOLL. I guess that program is a bust. I was suggesting my instructor on the HVAC Calc but he kinda just rolled his eyes and said "thats nice". lol

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    7
    @beenthere:

    On the coldest of days my 1st floor furnace would run for extended periods to maintain 68 degrees. On an average winter day 35 degrees, it has been a while, but I think it would come on, run 20-30 mins, then shut off for about the same. This is to the best of my recollection.

    Same for the AC in the summer.

    Winter or Summer, I really can't ever remember units coming on and just running all the time or cycleing on and off frequently. My mom's house would run 2 mins then cycled off & back on. It drove me nuts when we visited so I am aware of that type of issue and would at least remember if our house ever did that.

    I also checked with neighbors who have upgraded in the last couple years...same exact house...same exact exposer. They both had systems put in - 90-100,000 btu on each floor. AC 2.5 - 3 ton up and 3- 3.5 ton down.

    I just got a quote from a guy who took all the measurements and noted windows/ doors, outside walls etc. His was the most expensive quote of them all!!! Almost double my lowest quote! He proposed 2 amana AMVC957040CX & 2 Amana ASZC160361A 16 Seer 2 stage heat pumpts.

    Another guy that came Saturday said he would do a load calc for me and took all the info back to input to his computer in the office. I am waiting on his quote. I will respond when I get that too.!

    Again, thanks to everyone for their input.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,537
    Those Amana units are "lifetime" complete unit replacment warranty units, so they'll have the best warranty of all proposed, and sounds like they are also closer in size to what you actually need. Regardless of cost, might want to consider them. Remember that heat rises, so putting the smaller AC upstairs is usually NOT a good idea, unless the upper floor is quite a bit smaller than downstairs. We see a lot of folks with two systems and the 2nd floor AC never shuts off due to the heat rising from lower floor.

    Oh yes, make sure the communication/control system is included with these Amana units as they are the communicating models with variable speed blower and two stage outside units.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,095
    As above, those are higher end Amanas. The price reflects that, and probably higher quality workmanship.
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  7. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    7
    Quote Originally Posted by heaterman View Post
    The TM9 series York is a 2 stage furnace. Your new furnace(s) are considerably more efficient than the old ones, when you compare the output capacity of the old to the new, you will see that these new units are oversized for your present structure. Same goes for the AC. The only way to know by how much is to have a manual J heat loss/gain done. As far as which brand, I handle York and service both, obviously I would go with the York. You should be able to buy up for 10 years labor.
    YORK
    Zone:1
    YCJF42 Condenser 16 SEER 3.5 Tons
    CE48 Evaporator coil
    TM9X100C20MP11 furnace w/high eff motor 100,000 BTU 95.5% AFUE

    Zone2
    YCJF30 Condenser 16 SEER 2.5 Tons
    CE36 Evaporator coil
    TM9X080C16P11 furnace w/high eff motor 80,000 BTU 95.5% AFUE


    Hmmm, you said the TM9 series is 2 stage.

    Not sure if I understand the definition of 2 stage then.

    I was just told by a York sales rep that the models quoted are not 2 stage. They have a high eff motor but it is not 2 stage.

    Nomenclature: For the new TM8X and TM9X models, the X in the fourth position indicates that the furnace is a single stage heat model equipped with a high efficiency DC direct drive motor. This high efficiency motor provides increased SEER ratings when compared to units with standard PSC motors as rated with split system outdoor equipment due to the significant reduction in blower watts used in cooling mode.


    But thanks for trying to help.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    774
    Quote Originally Posted by snj2000 View Post
    YORK
    Zone:1
    YCJF42 Condenser 16 SEER 3.5 Tons
    CE48 Evaporator coil
    TM9X100C20MP11 furnace w/high eff motor 100,000 BTU 95.5% AFUE

    Zone2
    YCJF30 Condenser 16 SEER 2.5 Tons
    CE36 Evaporator coil
    TM9X080C16P11 furnace w/high eff motor 80,000 BTU 95.5% AFUE


    Hmmm, you said the TM9 series is 2 stage.

    Not sure if I understand the definition of 2 stage then.

    I was just told by a York sales rep that the models quoted are not 2 stage. They have a high eff motor but it is not 2 stage.

    Nomenclature: For the new TM8X and TM9X models, the X in the fourth position indicates that the furnace is a single stage heat model equipped with a high efficiency DC direct drive motor. This high efficiency motor provides increased SEER ratings when compared to units with standard PSC motors as rated with split system outdoor equipment due to the significant reduction in blower watts used in cooling mode.


    But thanks for trying to help.
    That is not true. The "X" means it is an X-13 blower motor. The TM series is 2 stage. The TG series is single stage and the YP series is modulating.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    7
    You guys are the professionals and you may be right and I am probably confused...but....

    I have the YORK brochures

    TM9X:Single Stage operation, high-efficiency motor

    TM9T: Two-stage operation

    TM9V: Two-stage operation, variable-speed motor

    So unless I am reading this wrong the TM9X is Single-stage.

    http://www.usair-eng.com/residential...YTG-B-0509.pdf
    http://www.york.com/residential/products/furnaces/lx/

    Thanks

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    774
    Quote Originally Posted by snj2000 View Post
    You guys are the professionals and you may be right and I am probably confused...but....

    I have the YORK brochures

    TM9X:Single Stage operation, high-efficiency motor

    TM9T: Two-stage operation

    TM9V: Two-stage operation, variable-speed motor

    So unless I am reading this wrong the TM9X is Single-stage.

    http://www.usair-eng.com/residential...YTG-B-0509.pdf
    http://www.york.com/residential/products/furnaces/lx/

    Thanks
    You are correct. I got my letters mixed up. Sorry for the confusion I created

  11. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by snj2000 View Post
    You guys are the professionals and you may be right and I am probably confused...but....

    I have the YORK brochures

    TM9X:Single Stage operation, high-efficiency motor

    TM9T: Two-stage operation

    TM9V: Two-stage operation, variable-speed motor

    So unless I am reading this wrong the TM9X is Single-stage.

    http://www.usair-eng.com/residential...YTG-B-0509.pdf
    http://www.york.com/residential/products/furnaces/lx/

    Thanks


    I wouldn't worry too much about the oversized factor, you got multiple quotes and neighbors confirming the size and size has very little impact on cost of the furnace (if you believe they are trying to make more money by selling you a larger unit then you need). Efficiency, warranty, brand and stages are the major cost factors.

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