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  1. #1
    Let me ask this a different way.


    I have a 15+ year old TempStar split system. I've been getting bids for a new System. Looked at several and have settled on Trane/AS. Funny thing is, the AS bid is higher than 2 of the Trane bids with more base equipment than the Trane bids. My goal is to have a 14+ SEER system. Stats are:

    Heat Loss BTUH=44238
    Hydronic Heat Lin Ft=73.73 moisture no an issue
    Latent/Sensible Gain BTUH=36554
    Colling Tons=3.68
    Cooling CFM=1464

    Trane Bid=XR14 4TTR4048A/XL80 TUD80R948K
    XR14i 4TTX4048B/same furnace
    something about a ADP coil TE5660???

    What combination would you Pros suggest?
    I know that the Variable speed adds/but heating is very low for me.

    At this point is the equipment cost higher on the 410a? Looks like I'll go with that since I plan to keep my home.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,234

    Hmm Overall Energy Costs are T.B.D. ___ ?

    Originally posted by ken curran
    ... My goal is to have a 14+ SEER system. Stats are:

    Heat Loss BTUH = 44,238
    Hydronic Heat Lin Ft= 73.73
    Moisture is not an issue

    Latent/Sensible Gain BTUH = 36,554
    Cooling Tons= 3.68 Cooling CFM= 1,464

    What combination would you Pros suggest?
    Higher SEER & HSPF recommended for So Cal

    TRANE 4-ton XL16i Heat Pump
    http://www.trane.com/residential/pro...mps/xl16i.aspx

    http://www.trane.com/Residential/Pro...ableSpeed.aspx

    Condenser 4TWX6048 with AHU 4TEE3F049 @ ~1,500 CFM
    R-22 and R-410a equipment is priced exactly the same here.

    Specs:
    Cooling 15.5 SEER
    51,801 BTUh 82'F 16.3 SEER
    47,500 BTUh 95'F 13.1 SEER

    1st stage running >60% of the time.
    2nd stage may rarely be needed.

    Heating ........ C.O.P.
    43,500 BTUh 47'F 3.82
    33,156 BTUh 35'F 3.09
    27,600 BTUh 17'F 2.76
    + 5 kW electric heat strip
    for < balance point ~30'F outside air

    I assume there are very few hours O.A. < 25'F
    in your specific So Cal. location
    (Edwards Air Force Base < 300 hours, LA near zero).

    For example,
    44,238 BTU at ~55'F Delta T
    (??? 15'F ?) Design temperature
    Heat Load at 30'F outside = ~

    Heat ... O.A. Heat Pump
    44238 15 804.33
    43434 16
    42629 17 27600 5556.00
    41825 18 27909 308.67
    41021 19 28217
    40216 20 28526
    39412 21 28835
    38608 22 29143
    37803 23 29452
    36999 24 29761
    36195 25 30069
    35390 26 30378
    34586 27 30687
    33782 28 30995
    32977 29 31304
    32173 30 31613

    31369 31 31921
    30564 32 32230
    29760 33 32539
    28956 34 32847
    28151 35 33156

    Gas & Electric rates, Specific Southern Cal location and Specific building information would be needed to determine energy costs and an accurate balance point calculation.

    [Edited by dan sw fl on 01-02-2006 at 07:26 AM]
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Waco, Texas, USA
    Posts
    6,153
    Ken you have listed some great equipment but what about the rest of your system? Esp. the air filter. 14 SEER is great when its clean but what SEER will you have after it gets dirty?
    "And remember my sentimental friend......that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others" - Wizard of Oz.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    257
    I have a problem with using the ADP coil with a Trane or AS. As a rule ADP's coils don't have as much capacity as Trane/AS condensers and significantly shorten then lifespan of their compressors. I would also be curious if there are any ARI ratings for this particular combination.

    golan

  5. #5
    Can anyone give me some coils that will give me the SEER of 14+ I am looking for and the ARI#s. Guess the company was trying to save a few bucks with the ADP coil. There are 0 days of <25o here and hot summers. I'm about 60 miles East of LA. Average days above 75o=153 below 40o=0 but we do have a few days in the mid to high 30s.

    Any issues with a switch to 410a? My lines are the correct size but a concealed run (inside of walls) from outside to inside the garage.

    Is this the best time to be buying? Heating not an issue currently. But need to make change before the ac get going.

    I thought that American Standard was the less expensive version of TRANE.

    Thought that the XL16i was a R22 only.

    What impact would the width of the furnace have-17 1/2" or 21"? What about coil width-matched or mismatched?

    [Edited by ken curran on 01-02-2006 at 03:06 PM]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,895
    The only way to get 14 SEER out of a Choo Choo with standard blower is a 3rd party coil. ADP makes a great coil but they can be 1/4 ton or more shy on capacity, especially the standard piston coils.

    The A-S units are identical to the Trane's mechanically except for the plastic top. Prices vary by supplier so some areas one brand could be more plus it varies by how the dealer prices too.

    The 16i is R410a only. You must have variable speed setup with it.

  7. #7
    Seems a lot of extra $$s for a variable speed fan. Pay back will add years especially with my low heat requirement.

    OK, if not AS/Trane, whats a good system in the same price range? I'm going to be here for many years, so I need a system that will last.

    SEER of 14 or more and 410a. Any rebates from So Cal Edison in 06 may take 16 SEER.

    ARI #s would be very helpful.

    Is this a good time to buy?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,895
    http://207.140.180.12/ari-prog/direc...s?OpenDocument

    find your ARI numbers here. For 100% Trane click the top link. For ADP coils, click the mix-match link.

  9. #9
    Sorry, I just get lost on that site. Which directory do I use?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Seabeck, WA
    Posts
    1,870
    They may have been trying to save room by using the ADP coil. Trane coils are bigger. If you go with the ADP make sure that they put in an expansion valve. With a fixed orifice you'll lose seer.
    With the two stage just go with a Trane AH. You'll love the variable speed, especially if you get an EAC.
    Live for yourself and ask no one to live for you.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,895
    The unitary A/C systems shows you all of the same brand. They group them as unit & coil (RCU-A-C) or as a complete system which is what you'd need with Trane to get 14 SEER. That even lists the furnace in the system. Those are the (RCU-A-CB) listings.

    The mix-match section lists 3rd party coils like ADP. There you probably will find a coil that will hit 14 SEER with the XR14 or XL14i. Then you could look in the RCU-A-C section as it doesn't matter what furnace you have.

    3rd party ratings are computer generated where mfr ratings are actually tested. Makes you wonder why an ADP coil, which often is physically smaller, will get a higher SEER than a genuine Trane for example! But that's the way it always has been. Many use 3rd party coils as a SEER booster.

    Spend a little time on ARI's site, it isn't that complicated once you get the hang of it.

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