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  1. #14
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,054
    I found the 24 matching too. But if tech support says the 23 is OK too and it has the appropriate TXV on it, all the better.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    I found the 24 matching too. But if tech support says the 23 is OK too and it has the appropriate TXV on it, all the better.
    The original install didn't call for a TXV valve. When the installer went (for the 3rd time) to get the correct coil unit, the dealer gave him the TXV valve to install with the 23 coil. From an outsider, I assumed that the TXV valve made up for the fact that the coil was only rated at 2ton vs 2.5ton....After reading above, I see that the expansion valve doesn't "make up" for anything, but I am glad they installed it. The more you guys respond, the better I'm feeling about the whole thing. I searched the forum before posting and saw posts about premature compressor failure due to using a compressor that was oversized for the indoor coil.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,054
    The size numbers on the indoor coil don't always mean anything. Some have gone to not showing the size , just having a number on their evaps so people aren't worried about it. For example, a super efficient Trane coil might be an 004. That way nobody worries about putting it on a certain size outdoor unit.

    If the 024 has the right internal space to hold the right amount of refrigerant for a 030 condenser, you are good to go.

    TXVs make the system slightly more efficient and work better in lighter load situations.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12
    Well interesting twist, I spoke to Allied Air. They stated that by law my installer should not have replaced my system with an r22 system. They are allowed to replace the outdoor or the indoor unit as a repair but not both. Secondly, the 23 coil is not the match for the 13ACD-030. The appropriate coil is the 24 unit. I guess I'm wondering where to go from here. I have a service contract with this large company in the area that states if they can't fix my A/C they would replace it at no charge. They found a leak in my indoor coil and said it made more sense just to replace the system (no charge to me) due to the age. The salesman came out and said the new system would be 410a. He said I would need to provide a new raceway up the side of the house for the new 410 line set. I went and purchased the appropriate color for the house. When the installer arrived they brought the r22 unit and said they didn't want to mess up the side of my house so they were going to re-use my line set and install the R22 system. At this point, I think I need to bring it to their attention and at least demand the correct coil be installed. Mind you this is very large energy company doing this install in my area.

  5. #18
    Often when the exact metering pin size cannot be determined we will recomend a txv with a matching "ton" rating be used in its place. It also is no longer possible just to look at the model number of the coil and determine what its actual btu capacity is due to the wide variation of match ups and the fact that the ADP coils like the one you have is used with r-410a also, which is where its listed rating would be. r-410 requires larger coil volumes and a 2-ton coil could easily handle up to 3 ton with an r-22 system. It used to be that contractors would use the txv to cover a multitude of sins but today that is nolonger the case. With training we have tried to educate better and some application the metering pin can be a better choice. but with your match up I would reccomend the txv.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by MrParts View Post
    Often when the exact metering pin size cannot be determined we will recomend a txv with a matching "ton" rating be used in its place. It also is no longer possible just to look at the model number of the coil and determine what its actual btu capacity is due to the wide variation of match ups and the fact that the ADP coils like the one you have is used with r-410a also, which is where its listed rating would be. r-410 requires larger coil volumes and a 2-ton coil could easily handle up to 3 ton with an r-22 system. It used to be that contractors would use the txv to cover a multitude of sins but today that is nolonger the case. With training we have tried to educate better and some application the metering pin can be a better choice. but with your match up I would reccomend the txv.
    Thanks MrParts....I have since confirmed by talking to the actual engineers at Allied that the 23 coil is ok to to use and actually has a larger volume than the 24. He confirmed what you said about the part numbers. This also explains why the sticker on the out door unit lists the actual tonnage and the indoor coil unit did not. Thanks for all you help guys......

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    18,257
    First:

    It is illegal for a supply house to sell a complete R22 installation supplied by a manufacturer to a contractor. Simply put, complete R22 systems are not offered by manufacturers today.

    It is NOT illegal for a dry R22 unit and a replacement coil to be installed. So, Allied is off the mark on that one. Both aspects are being installed as replacement parts. The coil is being replaced on an existing air handler, yes? So, your system is being repaired if that air handler is intact. That's my informed take on it. I am not an attorney or a representative of the EPA. YMMV.

    Now, you can have a conversation about what aspects of this trouble you, but I would not go in with guns a-blazin based on some idea of wrongful actions. I'm not sure that will get you anywhere.

    You might want to consider the business model of those with whom you have dealings, and whether you know people who would recommend them. You will usually get better service and more satisfaction if you get a good referral, rather than just going with "big company."
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12
    No completely new air handler was installed. They called me today. They said they have to remove the r22 system and install a 410 by law. So we will see how it goes.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    18,257
    I'm sorry. WHO called you today?

    Is the installing company volunteering to replace your R22 system?

    If someone is saying "by law" to you, get them to refer you to the statute. That will be a federal CFR number they are using as the basis for this action.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  10. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12
    The installer called me and said they need to replace it "by law" They didnt quote a particular statute. They basically said it was missed at so many levels. I had 2 different site evals by the same company. To think this all started with me making sure the coil matched. I was very friendly in my dealings and they were very apologetic. I wanted to leave r22 system in because it was such a hassle the first time around, but they insisted. I did ask for a free upgradr for my trouble lol! We will see where that gets me.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    18,257
    Quote Originally Posted by htrk1 View Post
    The installer called me and said they need to replace it "by law" They didnt quote a particular statute. They basically said it was missed at so many levels. I had 2 different site evals by the same company. To think this all started with me making sure the coil matched. I was very friendly in my dealings and they were very apologetic. I wanted to leave r22 system in because it was such a hassle the first time around, but they insisted. I did ask for a free upgradr for my trouble lol! We will see where that gets me.
    Well, if you get a benefit from an uninformed person, that's still a benefit to you. We'll see.

    What kind of an upgrade did you ask for?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  12. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12
    My contract only allowed for a 13 seer system to be installed at no charge. I ask them for a minimum of a 16 seer. Not sure if that is a realistic thing to ask for? Its gonna be an Armstrong no matter what.

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