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  1. #14
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    I think anyone promising to do exactly what i do, with the guarantees and warranties i have, IS doing inferior work. There is no way they can deliver what im delivering and maintain a healthy company.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gross View Post
    I think anyone promising to do exactly what i do, with the guarantees and warranties i have, IS doing inferior work. There is no way they can deliver what im delivering and maintain a healthy company.
    OK, I'll bite - how is it that you can maintain a healthy company performing that level of work, when others can't?

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonZ View Post
    OK, I'll bite - how is it that you can maintain a healthy company performing that level of work, when others can't?
    I can tell you how most good companies do that..

    1) Expertise. They know what to do, and have people that know what to do.

    2) Value. They provide value, and they encourage it among their staff.

    3) Ethics. They stand behind what they do, admit to mistakes, and correct them.

    That's just right off the top of my head.

    You see, if you are doing these things, you are unlikely to be the lowest dollar bid, unless you see that as a means of opening a door that will more than make up for a small loss in future work. We do that in the commercial market all the time.

    It takes time, commitment, and expertise in an atmosphere of ethics to provide true value, and value does indeed cost more than expediency. There are companies out there who have five sales guys and one real technician. I've seen it. I even know of a commercial company who just took over two others, and their commitment is to install a new unit as a result of every service visit. EVERY service visit.

    The underskilled or unethical company can sometimes get away with a sales-only business model by being really good BS'ers. However, what every consumer deserves is the best of what our industry offers, and yes, that often does mean paying a little more.

    But, the increase in value is often ten or twenty-fold over the increase in cost.

    Perhaps you have heard of this man, and his famous explanation of value in business:

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too little.

    When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you may lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

    John Ruskin

    I hope that helps you to understand.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonZ View Post
    OK, I'll bite - how is it that you can maintain a healthy company performing that level of work, when others can't?
    many companies can do this.

    it's not that rare.
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gross View Post
    I think anyone promising to do exactly what i do, with the guarantees and warranties i have, IS doing inferior work. There is no way they can deliver what im delivering and maintain a healthy company.
    please apply for AOP * to post in the AOP forums.

    Thanks
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by beachtech View Post
    many companies can do this.

    it's not that rare.
    Exactly. That was my question. Why is his situation different from any other skilled and honest contractor that cares about their work? I have to think that there's more than one out there, but if you were to follow his logic, he's the only one.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonZ View Post
    Exactly. That was my question. Why is his situation different from any other skilled and honest contractor that cares about their work? I have to think that there's more than one out there, but if you were to follow his logic, he's the only one.

    I may be wrong, but I think you are missing his point.

    He is saying that his work costs more because it costs more to do good work.

    The reason is time and expertise, and the desire for one's work to be good, as opposed to getting by as a low bidder whose main concern is moving on the next new system.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonZ View Post
    OK, I'll bite - how is it that you can maintain a healthy company performing that level of work, when others can't?

    Short answer: they aren't charging enough.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Short answer: they aren't charging enough.
    I think I made the assumption that if the other contractor was claiming to do exactly what he does, that would include charging the same price.

    I was trying to figure out how his business model was different in an "all things being equal including price" situation.

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonZ View Post
    I think I made the assumption that if the other contractor was claiming to do exactly what he does, that would include charging the same price.

    I was trying to figure out how his business model was different in an "all things being equal including price" situation.
    In order to have that premise, you would need identically trained guys with the same ethic working for similar owners selling nearly identical equipment, and using the same standards of recommending repair or replacement. I don't see how that would be possible.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    In order to have that premise, you would need identically trained guys with the same ethic working for similar owners selling nearly identical equipment, and using the same standards of recommending repair or replacement. I don't see how that would be possible.
    Which is exactly why I didn't think his statement made sense when I read it.

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonZ View Post
    Which is exactly why I didn't think his statement made sense when I read it.
    And now you understand why others who are on the lower end of price can't offer the level of quality work that he performs while maintaining a healthy business, yes?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  13. #26
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    I understood that completely from the beginning. I just didn't understand HIS statement, as it was incomplete.

    If his statement had included the condition that the other contractors couldn't do the same job as him FOR A LOWER PRICE and maintain a healthy business, I would have never even questioned it, and this entire thread of conversation would have never happened.

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