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  1. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Albuquerque NM
    Posts
    2,485
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooked View Post
    Then there is the elite individual who meets or exceeds all of the above.
    Super-pro?

  2. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In a boiler room
    Posts
    7,222
    Maybe "retired pro" ?

  3. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    5,306
    Quote Originally Posted by garya505 View Post
    Super-pro?
    Your missing the one important category:

    Informed consumer, who has enough knowledge to know what he wants, can tell a good install from a bad one, and understands that it's best for a professional to do the work.

    That would be you.


    And there's only one semi-pro. And that is Will Farrel.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  4. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,495
    Informing customers (even if not our own) is what AOP is about.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  5. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    149
    I'm guilty of answering AOP threads with advice (I've already applied for an *). When I see gaps in the information given an OP, I find it hard to resist. Mainly I hope to help a Pro * into taking my information and answering.

    I'll try to refrain from being naughty.

  6. #58
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    12,259
    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    Based on what I've just read, it seems any poster can make a post that disagrees with information provided by a pro*, as long as it is not step by step advice on "how to" something?
    Stupid example: A pro* states that condensing units with double row coils should be professionally cleaned by a pro by separating those coils so that the dirt built up between them can be removed. A non pro without an * after their name can make a post that says they don't think it is necessary and that they think it's just a gimmick?
    Is that OK by the rules? I really don't care one way or the other; I've just been seeing some inconsistancy in regards to how the rules are being interpreted, and I thought using this example question would help us all understand a little better.
    First thing I need to keep in the overall forefront. This is a talk site. The motto behind the scenes is "Let'm Talk". We do our best to do just that and even let the rules bend and sway in the meantime but only to a point before we must take action. There will always be those who come here seeking advice of some sort even if they don't post or join.

    Those who do join will ask questions. In the past these questions consist of DIY, the rules clearly state this is not a DIY site. If you are unfamiliar with the Site Rules then please see the link in my signature file as there have been updates.

    This site has always struggled with DIY and members of this site giving out either good or BAD information. Certainly this information can be conflicted by most members here and yes, Pro members as well. About the only thing everyone agrees upon is taxes are too high. It's just a fact of life.

    To try and control the DIY issue we have evolved this site with a watered down AOP area or Ask Our Pro. The rules are simple enough but this is a talk site so there are those who think they don't have to abide by the rules, post anything they want any where they want and dare the AOPC to do something about it or press the site staff to remove their ability to post here. I don't have a problem putting anyone in a box if they misbehave including a staff member.

    AOP... ask our PRO, not ask our new member. Not ask a NON PRO, it's ask our PRO. The rules clearly states that you must have the * by your Pro user title to give advice within the rules. We made the obtaining of this * so darn simple and many of you guys followed up well but there are many of you that simply don't give a rats butt.

    We enhanced the *, at great labor expense, and built a Contractors Locator Map to help direct new guests to your business. Did this draw more Pro members to get their *, yes but the few remain that think we are going to find out who they are or sell their information. (such crap) WE don't care who you are and we don't sell information. We are techs and business owners just like you so why would we do that? Then there are those who just don't like to follow rules...

    Over and over again we have tried to explain that anyone can talk in any thread they wish if they have access. The AOP area is rule restricted for a very good reason, to water down the DIY on the site. We have explained over and over what the terminology means, Advice, Conversation and Questions. We have refined our terminology and the rules to adjust with the times and how the AOP flows and we have confidence the AOP will work.

    There are those who "think" they know what the AOP is all about so they keep hitting the report button. Some of these reports are great while others remind me of little children not playing nicely on the playground at school. They more resemble a feud or grudge match. Think before you report and know the proper rules. PM a AOPC member and ask them to take a look. If an AOPC member has already addressed an issue in the thread then don't report it, there is no need.

    The AOPC works their buns off behind the sceens. Many days I receive email after email containing conversations they have trying their dead level best to work out an issue with one person posting that is not a Pro or a Pro without an * giving advice. They send PM's asking you to become a Pro or to get your *. They do this politely and get scolded for their efforts. And, yes, the AOPC can PM a non Pro.

    If the AOP area doesn't work then it will revert back to the old ways, DIY. If this happens then there will be no choice but to discontinue the AOP area and kill out all DIY conversation to avoid liabilities. That's the bottom line.

    So, with all this in mind... work with the AOPC. Be polite and give advice when you can (rule limited) and don't when you can't. To all the non * holders... get your * but you must have your Pro membership first. All this information is located in my signature file and the signature of most all AOPC members.

    Let's work together to make this work.


    Thx

  7. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
    Posts
    10,339
    Great post Dad.
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  8. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,495
    I could not have said it better. In fact, it is the reason I started this thread. It is SO simple to follow these rules.

    For those with concerns about info, let me share this: only a couple of guys on the site know what it says on the side of the truck I'm sitting in as I type away on an almost microscopic crackberry keyboard. No one is selling or sharing that info. Frankly, no one cares what the name of the company is. I didn't even have to put it on the map, because I get my work through large service brokerages for retail commercial.

    No one ever told me I had to specify the company, but I did tell Robo when I finally got off my butt and applied for pro membership a few years ago.

    So gang, there is no reason to not become a Pro member and get your *

    It will be a lot simpler if we are all on the same page.

    Thanks for your help.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  9. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    170

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Dad View Post
    About the only thing everyone agrees upon is taxes are too high. It's just a fact of life.
    Don't know, coming from Europe and before that Australia, I strongly feel taxes are lowest in US. Hoorah to Uncle Sam!

  10. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    170

    Smile

    Missed something... also as it's so high charges for HVAC specialists (pros) the taxes paid should be even lower, since in US, the wealthier you are, the lower is your tax percentile. Heck, some even own planes ....

  11. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,495
    Welcome!

    The wealthiest 5% of us pay the majority of taxes. About 49% pay NO taxes, so you are getting incorrect information. An individual who owns his own business pays a higher individual tax rate than does a person who works for someone else.

    We are working toward a shift to a consumption tax, and elimination of tax on income. Everyone will be on an equal footing, and everyone will be a taxpayer, even drug dealers, illegal gamblers, and prostitutes.

    Now back to our thread.



    We are working on improving definitions so all will understand them, and we will then improve our encouragement to follow the rules.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  12. #64
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    12,259

  13. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    170
    A little bit of humor doesn't hurt. I found finally thru the locator service as in "Dad"s signature a a HVAC specialist and have invited him over tomorrow to my place and offered him lunch too, which he declined.... Will keep posted on outcome.

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