Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1

    Confused 16 Seer Purchase Versus AHRI rating

    Contract was for a Trane 16 seer 5 ton condenser w/coil using
    1-4TTX606E1000A Trane Condenser
    1-4TXCD061BC3HCA Trane Coil
    1-TCONT 602 Digital Stat
    Sales people showed me three quotes. A 12, a 15, and a 16 seer
    All with different prices. We selected the 16 seer and the
    U.S. Government "EnergyGuide" said it was a 16.00 seer unit
    However
    the AHRI Certificate of Product Ratings says the
    Cooling Capacity is 54500
    EER Rating is 11.50
    and the SEER RATING IS 15.00
    Was I taken to the cleaners?????
    Thanks for any info you can give me.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,702
    The model line SEER rating, is an "up to" rating. often the 5 tons units don't get close to that SEER on the higher "up to" lines.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,145
    A better solution is reducing your heat gain to where you don't need such a big A/C unit. How many sq ft are you cooling and what city?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    2,361
    It also depends on the furnace of air handler fan. The varible speed fans matched up with this equipment will have a higher SEER th
    an a standard fan motor matchup. Did you get a new furnace or was an existing furnace used? Ask for the "AHRI Certified Reference Number"

    Use this site if you have the complete numbers including the furnace model number.
    http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahridir...ultSearch.aspx
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL.
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    The model line SEER rating, is an "up to" rating. often the 5 tons units don't get close to that SEER on the higher "up to" lines.
    Another proof of Trane's deceitfulness in advertising. Most every other mfg uses the "down to" method which I think is better, less confusing to the HO & not quite as deceitful.

    At any rate, it's not the dealer's fault, he's not the one taking you to the "cleaners". Like beenthere said, for whatever reason mfg's have a harder time achieving the higher efficiencies at the 5ton mark.
    WHY?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,702
    Quote Originally Posted by Special Ed View Post
    Another proof of Trane's deceitfulness in advertising. Most every other mfg uses the "down to" method which I think is better, less confusing to the HO & not quite as deceitful.

    At any rate, it's not the dealer's fault, he's not the one taking you to the "cleaners". Like beenthere said, for whatever reason mfg's have a harder time achieving the higher efficiencies at the 5ton mark.
    York, Carrier, Lennox, Rheem, Goodman all use the up to method on the higher model lines. What brand do you use that advertises that their 5 ton top of the model lines don't get X efficiency.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Down by the river
    Posts
    1,614
    Quote Originally Posted by Special Ed View Post
    Another proof of Trane's deceitfulness in advertising. Most every other mfg uses the "down to" method which I think is better, less confusing to the HO & not quite as deceitful.

    At any rate, it's not the dealer's fault, he's not the one taking you to the "cleaners". Like beenthere said, for whatever reason mfg's have a harder time achieving the higher efficiencies at the 5ton mark.
    what?? an absolutely clueless shot in the dark statement. every piece of equipment has an up to rating. I mean who the hell would put SEER as low as 13.5??
    It's hard to stop a Trane. but I have made one helluva living keeping them going.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,886
    Many do it. 10 years ago Lennox came out with the Elite 11. Sure it got 11, with a more expensive TXV coil that I'd bet was rarely used. All of the Lennox A/Cs have the "approximate" SEER in the model #. Does every Goodman DSXC18 combo get 18? No, the best the 5 ton can get with a gas furnace is 16. Can't call out Trane on this issue.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL.
    Posts
    4,313

    Really, guys?

    I've seen Carrier model #s & they seem to pretty right on. Seen the Trane XL20i & none of those models get 20SEER. The Lennoxes start out w/a 10 or 12 in their model #s & that's pretty much what they are. Goodmans/Amanas? Their GSX/ASX13's are just that: 13SEERs. They have 14, 16 & 18 models as well. Funny they don't have a 15, but that's because their 14's will get that w/either the AEPF or ASPF model air handlers.
    WHY?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,829
    C'mon guys. It's called marketing and any manufacturer in the game is labeling a "class" of units according to the maximum SEER rating they can get on any combination of one system. I think the "up to" is the more common fine print from all manufacturer's. And as beenthere said, when it's a 5.0-ton system, getting the 'bragged about' efficiency is usually non-existent. But I've installed 13-SEER labelled units that have obtained 14.5-SEER on the AHRI ratings by using a air handler with an ECM motor. Sure, it adds to the price of the job a few hundred bucks but overall, they're paying for a 13-SEER and getting a pretty good bang for their bucks.

    I'm not sure where full discloser leaves dealer in a situation if he specifies '16 SEER' and delivers less. One would think that if he's selling based on efficiency, he's want to let the customer know that what the manufacturer claims as a maximum efficiency is no more accurate than the MPG ratings the DOE allows automobile manufacturers to use on new cars. There are disclaimers, "No guarantees are made as to the performance of this product. Your actual efficiency may vary under installed conditions." They do it with autos and they do it with stocks and bonds. Why should AC/HP be any different?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    195

    EVERBODY is lying, we are simply talking about shades of grey

    Quote Originally Posted by Special Ed View Post
    I've seen Carrier model #s & they seem to pretty right on. Seen the Trane XL20i & none of those models get 20SEER. The Lennoxes start out w/a 10 or 12 in their model #s & that's pretty much what they are. Goodmans/Amanas? Their GSX/ASX13's are just that: 13SEERs. They have 14, 16 & 18 models as well. Funny they don't have a 15, but that's because their 14's will get that w/either the AEPF or ASPF model air handlers.
    OK,

    SEER tells you how Efficient your system is when it it 82 outside, no RH, and you bring the indoor temp down to 80.

    SEER is a totally bogus rating created to lie to our customers. We are lying every time it is used to sell energy savings or compare units. So all we are talking about here, is not weather or not we are all lying. We are. This discussion in only about who is the biggest lier.

    Remember, AHRI went to Federal Court trying to stop the release of EER ratings. If they hadn't lost you still would not see them today. The industry biggest lie is HSPF, and AHRI still won't release the 17 degree COP data to properly model a HP. Your industry wants you to lie. We all have our pants on fire.

    But lying is how our industry sells AC units.

    Oh well,

    ACBD

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,702
    Quote Originally Posted by Special Ed View Post
    I've seen Carrier model #s & they seem to pretty right on. Seen the Trane XL20i & none of those models get 20SEER. The Lennoxes start out w/a 10 or 12 in their model #s & that's pretty much what they are. Goodmans/Amanas? Their GSX/ASX13's are just that: 13SEERs. They have 14, 16 & 18 models as well. Funny they don't have a 15, but that's because their 14's will get that w/either the AEPF or ASPF model air handlers.
    Carrier higher end models in the 5 ton size don't get the "up to" SEER. Lennox is the same way.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    287
    Look at this Trane systems, they are all 5 ton that will meet 16 seer.

    A\C: model # 4TTX5061E1000a
    Coil: model # 4TXCD063BC3A
    Furnace: model # TUD2C100B9V5

    A/C model # 4TTR5061E1000A
    Coil: model # 4TXCD063BC3A
    Furnace: model # TUD2C100B9V5

    1st one is XL15i complete system

    2nd is XR15 complete system (which is the same as XL16i with 1 compressor 2 stages.

    Both are great systems when installed properly that meet the tax credit/seer ratings you are looking for. There are a few others but this are the ones we install the most of.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event