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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,665
    I'm sure your friend ment well but maybe he was a quack

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    toronto, canada
    Posts
    551
    Check if your furnace is 2 stage before you remove it.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Edna Bay, Alaska Highest concentration of black bears in the US
    Posts
    623
    You guy's aren't making fun of the Ducks are you?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,732
    Since 60 will heat 3500 sf homes in my area I'd say you best get something that modulates down. A multi stage could have the highest stage locked out.

    Look for one based on how low it will go. Ie, goodman 45 only drops to 30 whereas carrier 60 will drop to 22.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    2,361

    Talking Just for fun:

    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    ....Similarly, when people say "duck tape," they mean "duct tape." ...
    I guess it is official:

    Did You Know?
    Duct tape actually emerged from the trenches of World War II. GI's used the government issue sticky stuff to keep boots and ammo boxes dry, calling it "duck" tape for its ability to repel moisture. When soldiers brought the tape home after the war, the housing boom provided them with many uses for it, including holding together heating and cooling ducts. Thats when it became "duct" tape, though Duck Tape survives as a trademarked brand.

    This Old House, January/February, 2003, page 20.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    2,361

    Seems like the #1 problem here is noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armis View Post
    .... I had no issue with my heat system, but noise is unbearble. No zoning for two story house.
    • A pro might be able to select a lower fan speed and check heat rise to be within design limits.
    • It is possible that the noise is whistling caused by air moving across cheap grilles.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Houston area
    Posts
    1,493
    Tom Hanks used it on the Apollo 13 mission to repair the dilithium crystals in the warp drive and return safely to earth.

    Maybe, aside from the noise, static pressure issues, air leakage and sweating in cooling season a 100K furnace is not too big if the ducks are uninsulated.
    The picture in my avatar is of the Houston Ship Channel and was taken from my backyard. I like to sit outside and slap mosquitos while watching countless supertankers, barges and cargo ships of every shape and size carry all sorts of deadly toxins to and fro. It's really beautiful at times.....just don't eat the three eyed fish....

    `. .` .>(((>

    `... `. .` .>(((>

    .` .>(((>

    LMAOSHMSFOAIDMT

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    I don't know
    Posts
    2,903
    Since 60 will heat 3500 sf homes in my area I'd say you best get something that modulates down.
    Kind of difficult to believe.

    The homes in your area must be very well built in that case.
    General public's attitude towards our energy predicament: "I reject the reality of finite resource depletion and substitute it with my own; energy is infinite, we just need an alternative storage medium to run the cars on. The economy can grow indefinitely - we just need to "green" everything! Technology is energy! Peak what?"

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,732
    Quote Originally Posted by amd View Post
    Kind of difficult to believe.

    The homes in your area must be very well built in that case.
    Nope. 2 x 6 walls. R50 attic. Not a blower door medalist either, 2100. Put a 40 on a 1700 sf MOBILE HOME (goal was reducing equipment noise). Result was far rooms got comfortable for 1st time in 17 years because equipment RUNS rather than cycling quickly off.

    People just seem to have no clue what a btu is, or what homes require. 60,000 btu is a LOT of heat. Fear of sailing off some edge of the earth encourages "eh, throw an extra ton at it."

    This is made worse by homeowner ignorance. They want their homes heated and cooled, but they want the equipment to NOT run. They want to whipsaw temperatures around like they're driving a corvette rather than a super tanker, (what is thermal mass?). "I want my house to cool in 15 minutes! Hey, why is water dripping off the ceiling?"

    Calculations are a great thing, but observations of actual performance can help a LOT. Your ac never runs continuously but some rooms are uncomfortable, therefore add 1/2 ton at replacement? How often do you see that disconnected thinking?

    At 2f outside my 3500 sf homeowner (yes, 10 foot ceilings - like that matters - "Oop, better throw another 1/2 ton just to be safe!") reports the house tends to run on medium stage - 46,000.
    Last edited by tedkidd; 09-07-2011 at 08:27 AM.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Nope. 2 x 6 walls. R50 attic. Not a blower door medalist either, 2100. Put a 40 on a 1700 sf MOBILE HOME (goal was reducing equipment noise). Result was far rooms got comfortable for 1st time in 17 years because equipment RUNS rather than cycling quickly off.

    People just seem to have no clue what a btu is, or what homes require. 60,000 btu is a LOT of heat. Fear of sailing off some edge of the earth encourages "eh, throw an extra ton at it."

    This is made worse by homeowner ignorance. They want their homes heated and cooled, but they want the equipment to NOT run. They want to whipsaw temperatures around like they're driving a corvette rather than a super tanker, (what is thermal mass?). "I want my house to cool in 15 minutes! Hey, why is water dripping off the ceiling?"

    Calculations are a great thing, but observations of actual performance can help a LOT. Your ac never runs continuously but some rooms are uncomfortable, therefore add 1/2 ton at replacement? How often do you see that disconnected thinking?

    At 2f outside my 3500 sf homeowner (yes, 10 foot ceilings - like that matters - "Oop, better throw another 1/2 ton just to be safe!") reports the house tends to run on medium stage - 46,000.
    I agree.

    Thermal mass is something I'm not sure is very well taken into account in equipment sizing. In winter, design temperatures might only last for 4-6 hours in the morning. In that time, you might only lose 1-2 degrees if you were slightly undersized and the sunshine (the coldest days usually have clear skies) will quickly warm it up by 10AM.

    I think many would be suprised at how small of a furnace you can actually use in most homes. AC is a little different because of latent loads and solar heat gain and system capacity can be effected easier by dirty coils, system charge, etc. Hight heat gain conditions can linger within a few degrees of design temps for 8-10 hours, expecially in mid summer when the ground is warm.


    I hear all the time how most people believe it's bad for the equipment to run for a long time or even continously soem days. They think it will wear out quicker. Yes it may "wear" quicker, but oversized equipments starts and stops more often and can therefore "degrade" faster or rather wear out in different ways.

    Using the same argument, many would think that a tractor trailer should have something like 2000 horsepower.... since with only around 500-700HP, it's working too hard. The reality, is that engines are comparatively more efficient when operating closer to their desing capacity in most cases.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Your ac never runs continuously but some rooms are uncomfortable, therefore add 1/2 ton at replacement? How often do you see that disconnected thinking?
    Rather than spend $$$ on anothe 1/2 ton and then spend more operaitng it... you could probably throw in a couple dampers or just change out a couple supply registers with less restrictive ones and even downsize a 1/2 ton.

    With just 2 new supply registers and 1 damper, I eliminated a 2-4 degree temperature inbalance between 2 sides of my downstairs. Adding 1 supply register, relacing 1 supply register, setting the blower to the correct speed and removing a register damper I cut noise in my upstairs system in half. That's a lot cheaper than replacing an oversized system.

    My upstairs furnace is almsot 3X the size needed because they used a rule of thumb or based it on the number of radiators in the old boiler system and didn't factor in inproved insulation and storm windows, compared to the origninal design. Hmmm.. I had 10 radiators downstairs and 8 upstairs and they installed a 100k down and 80k up. Coincidence.... not likely.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    17,963
    I like small ducks...they are cute and fuzzy!
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

    Theodore Roosevelt

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Cotuit Ma
    Posts
    18
    My Bryant 350aa is single stage , i believe fan is down to lowest speed for a/c and "middle" for heat.

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