wall of shame grand prize winner (long post)

[dave64]

Last year at this time I decided it was time to replace the original furnace in my house. After 46 years I felt it had more than paid for itself. We have lived in this house 19 years and have no plans to move so we decided to go with a high efficiency furnace. Living in a cold climate ( Canadian prairies) and rising natural gas prices were also deciding factors. Called a number of different contractors for quotes and finally settled on what we thought was a reputable company. They had been in business since 1986 and I had not heard anything bad about them so gave them the job. The deal was for the furnace, install A/C and upgrade the electrical service. Theirs was not the lowest quote but not the highest either.

Furnace installation took from 9 AM until 7:30 PM, no heat all that time and minus 27 C temp outside so the house got a little cool. Tech fired up the furnace at 7:30 and then they all left, the furnace was running and had not even shut off once before they were gone. 6 AM the next morning the house is freezing again and the diagnostic light on the furnace is flashing red. Tech comes out at 9AM and finds no hole drilled in the abs exhaust pipe outside to let condensation drain so it had frozen up which of course shut down the system.There were numerous other issues with the install (lack of filter housing, beat up plenum, generally shoddy workmanship)which took a couple of months and lots of calls to the manufacturer, distributer and dealer to rectify. I probably became the HO from H#$% to them and they finally basically told me there was nothing wrong so get lost.

Furnace is York Affinity Model # PT9C16N100UP11A
(2 stage 100,000 BTU 1600CFM)
A/C is Model AC030M1021CA
(2 1/2 ton)

House is a 980 Sq. foot bungalow built in 1958 with extensive renovations including triple pane heat mirror windows, 1 1/2 styrofoam added to outside walls, and housewrapped.

Anyone see the problem here yet?

Last week I had a plumber in to do some work (not related), he is also a gas fitter. He took one look at the furnace and told me to call the gas inspector.Inspector comes 1/2 hour later and shakes his head. Furnace is "grossly oversized for the house" , ABS intake and exhaust pipes are angled so condensation runs away from the furnace, the plenum is a mess, and the chimney liner for the water heater is 3" instead of 4". He writes it all up and tells me not to worry, he is giving the contractor 15 days to fix the job which will include replacing the furnace. If they don't fix it their "bond" will pay for it.

One week later the contractor has shut their doors and now the inspector tells me I get the defect notice and will "be on my own" to pay for everything. He now tells me the "bond" of $5000 is supposed to cover all their work, not each job. The inspector is now telling me he has "red-flagged" all their work for the last couple of years and has already found another "15 to 20" homes with the same problem I have.

I have called the manufacturer ( York), who couldn't care less and take no responsibility, even though this contractor is listed on their webside as an "authorized dealer". I got the same response from their local distributer, the gas company, and the provincial inspectors department. I called a lawyer who says if the company is bankrupt too bad.

How can this happen? How can a contractor be so grossly incompetent and negligent that they could screw up so badly and then get away with it? What good is buying a permit for a job, using licenced, bonded techs and companies if none of that means anything? Why does a government have an inspector if the only time they actually inspect a job is after a call from a homeowner? When I was having problems shortly after the furnace was installed I sent an email to York with model and serial numbers of the equipment and also the size of the house. In this email I complained about the short cycles of the furnace operation. This email was forwarded to their local distributer and when I spoke to them about the size of the furnace they brushed me off and told me to talk to the contractor. Why didn't York or their distributer tell me what they obviously knew? Is it better to protect your contractor so he can screw a customer?

I will be looking for another contractor soon and I guarantee I will not be replacing this system with anything made by York. The local distributer has even informed me that there will be no warranty coverage on my furnace or A/C because of "improper installation".

I apologize for the length of this post and I hope I don't offend anyone here. From reading this board I find that there is some excellent advice and that most of the professionals on here are good people who care about what they do, I only wish one of you was in my area.

[trane]

Sad story but there is nothing I can add to help you.

[Jultzya]

You want me to read all that ? and there is not even one single picture? LOL

[phinncraft]

sorry about your system,dont blame yourk they have no control over the contractor

[Jultzya]

Man what a raw deal... I hope you find a reputable company this time around.

I feel your pain and it pisses me off every time I hear or read about one of this situations.

[willy1]

Sorry about your problem just seems that you got the shaft and its not Yorks falt or the distributor.Look for a good contractor and get refrences from some of there customers if they wont give them don't use them.

[redneck hvac-r]

I have a thought and the rest of you can chime in here with your opinions.

I know nothing about the york equipment so will defer to another more qualified person after this post.

I was thinking that the problem of being grossly oversized may be able to be rectified by changing the size of the orafices in the burner guns, it would take a sharp individual at the local supply house or dealer but I know it can be done. I have a 100k furnace on my old house and it was short cycling a little bit, I replaced the orafices in the burners with smaller ones and solved the problem.

We calculated the output to be approx. 80k btu. With only 980 sqft and the way you describe it being built, even that may be too many btu! You need a load calc done and don't settle for anything less!

I will stop here and wait for the other qualified techs to chime in.

Redneck.

[chapmanf]

I replaced the orafices in the burners with smaller ones and solved the problem.

I've heard of that being done, and been tempted myself, with old natural-draft ribbon burner furnaces (where opinions vary on the relative merits of reducing orifice size or simply closing one off completely), but in the case of a modern induced-draft, inshot burner furnace it just sounds like a Bad Idea. Need a way to drop inducer RPMs, change pressure switches, ensure proper combustion ... does not sound promising. Even if you could do it, York would wash their hands of the unit (yeah, like they've been a world of help already), and if the inspectors are requiring a properly sized furnace be put in, they probably aren't going to view a field-derated furnace as meeting the requirement. Anyway, it sounds like there were enough other problems with the installation that to try to keep it and fix things piecemeal isn't going to be satisfactory.

I do think it deserves an honored spot on the wall of shame though - post some pics! A pic of the bungalow side by side with a pic of the 100,000 btu/h nameplate would be a nice touch.

[Wild Leg]

Must have used one of these:

http://www.heat-loss.com/hvac/sizer.asp

[peytonc2682]

York is a good line so dont blame it on them. Blame it on the contractor! No wonder they are out of business.

[mark g]

I can't help but wonder why, if the inspector red-flagged all of this contractor's installations for the past couple of years, and there are at least 15-20 known cases of grossly oversizing equipment, then WHY didn't the governing body issuing the contractors license pull this guy's license? What good is an inspection if a subpar contractor is allowed to continue in business?

I'm also guessing you will find your A/C system grossly oversized too. Two and a half ton AC on a well insulated 1000 sq foot house in Canada sounds WAY oversized. Even here in Kansas, where it gets over 100 degrees routinely, that size A/C unit would keep a MUCH larger house comfortable.

[jack david]

I strongly disagree. York is no better and no worse then the rest of the manufactuerers, and that's the problem. The contracter who did this install was a "factory authorized" dealer, yet somehow York has no responsibility? That makes no sense. I hear all you guys crying like babies how Goodman sells equipment to any "hacker" who has the money to pay, and that somehow that makes them terrible, and they should be responsible. And this isn't about Goodman, because again, they are no better or no worse then the rest of the manufacturers. So let me see if I understand. A company is no good when they don't protect you, the upstanding contractor, when it somehow threatens your income by selling to "hackers", yet that same company has no obligation to protect the consumer by policeing THIER OWN authorized dealers. Please.

[Edited by jack david on 12-08-2005 at 06:56 PM]

[tinknocker service tech]

sorry you install went bad.
as far as i see it york should step up to the plate and stand behind thier equipment. since this was one of thier dealors they are just as responsible as the dealor is.
also if a permit was taken out where were the inspectors. seams the ball was dropped all the way arround here. also not to start trouble you as the home owner share some of the blame also. why didnt you have the job inspected as soon as it was done and let the inspector force the repairs


it is a shame when a contractor becomes a dealor and the manufactor does not stand behind thier recomandation of the contractor.