Heat pump with low suction pressure

[bryantman21]

I am working on a ruud heat pump MN# upne-048jaz with an electric air handler inside mn#uhla-hm48 with R-22 coil mn#rcsa-hm4824au. The home owner called with a complaint of freezing up on hot days with 85 degrees and up. Unit is 4 years old and this is the first hot summer we have had since it's install (not an install of mine). With 80 degree ambient outdoor it has 180# head, 50# suction with 50 degree line temp. We sucked it down and purged with nitrogen and vacuum and weighed in a new charge. Checked the pressure drop across filter drier and all seems to be well there. Replaced txv and no change with that either. Have cycled unit into heat mode in hopes that if there was oil in distributor tubes when in heat mode i do have a slight pressure difference from each port. Any ideas?

[wspascoe]

Check airflow and ductwork I had one beginning of summer rtn duct would suck shut when running

[dunkman]

Check static pressures in ductwork, for starters.

[bryantman21]

I should have mentioned I have done that, that was the first thing we did. I am starting to lean towards a check in the outside txv that is not opening, also on this ruud there are small strainers braized in on either sid of the txv outside. possibly a issue there but i dont have a noticiable temperature change from one side to the other of the strainers, but maybe i am wrong in thinking i should. trying to decied what the next move should be or if im missing something.

[Thomasg]

Txv? Sure its not undercharged? , check subcool and delta T that will let you know if its refrigerant problem or airflow. Need to know subcool?

[McLean Air]

I would think an under charged system would freeze when outdoor temps are lower. Like at night. Although a/c's run 24/7 here all summer. I had one that would freeze up sometimes. When I got there and thawed it out it would run fine for weeks. I did not even look at the contactor. I managed to catch it stuck on. Such a simple fix and it took me a few return trips to check. I was so sure it was a charge or air flow issue, I skipped the basics. That was a fun one to explain to my boss. lol

[bob_scheel]

What's your superheat at the expansion valve bulb? If its good or low then you have an airflow problem, or a plugged evaporator coil. Might also be a improperly sized coil, but your model #'s seem to indicate its matched.

If you are getting a high superheat then the txv isn't feeding enough refrigerant causing the low suction. (and consequently the low head pressure)

[HJ Controls]

need info unless you want a bunch of guessing and part changing.
whats your superheat and whats your subcooling.
if you want refrigerant diagnosis this is the info you will always need to give.
if you want a guess then check return air duct and grill sizes, coil dirty, low charge or wrong condenser fan motor. ie 1175 when an 820 rpm motor is oem.

[PalmettoMaintPro]

I used to work for a Rheem dealer , I have seen the out door txv cause the same symptoms you are talking about .

[MetroAir]

I agree to check static pressure. If it's 80 degrees out with only 50/180 it seems to be undercharged. Once temps drop at night, that would cause it to freeze up. Everyone else gave good input too. Check sub and superheat...and split before replacing more parts. Good luck!

[ckartson]

when you said you weighed in the charge, where are you getting the data?

[meoberry]

I agree to check static pressure. If it's 80 degrees out with only 50/180 it seems to be undercharged. Once temps drop at night, that would cause it to freeze up. Everyone else gave good input too. Check sub and superheat...and split before replacing more parts. Good luck!

What he said.

[PalmettoMaintPro]

when you said you weighed in the charge, where are you getting the data?

Just noticed you said weighed in . If the plate on the unit says 4.5 lbs, That is the factory charge the unit has when it is shipped to us if I am not mistaken. Add 25 to 30 ft of line set and indoor coil , a "weighed in charge" of what the outdoor units name plate says would result in an under charge . And probally save you a bunch of time checking all the duct stuff, Not saying it is a bad idea to check ,I have just seen really simple stuff cause guys a lot of heart ache , And spending three or so hours or how ever long checking this and that when it was a simple oversight .My thought is if you weighed in a charge according to that plate on the condenser ,you are defintely under charged espcially if it has a long line set or a larger size air handler to get the higher seer. Please excuse my spelling ,it has been one of those days

[PalmettoMaintPro]

Sorry to be a thread hog just my brain is cooking this one. Split systems are best charged by subcool or superheat IMO. Weighing a charge should be for something that there is not a variable in ,i.e. ice machines and package units or fridges. The line set of a split system is a variable unless you know for a fact EXACTLY how long the lines are. Which makes weighing a charge for a split a tad trickier to do. It can be done ,but only with accurate math.

[Chuck]

I should have mentioned I have done that, that was the first thing we did. I am starting to lean towards a check in the outside txv that is not opening, also on this ruud there are small strainers braized in on either sid of the txv outside. possibly a issue there but i dont have a noticiable temperature change from one side to the other of the strainers, but maybe i am wrong in thinking i should. trying to decied what the next move should be or if im missing something.

You checked static, what was it?

You have low airflow or refrigerant restriction, but you will have to give us SC and SH to know for sure which.

[sgagne199]

if the txv was not feeding properly or you had a restriction in the system wouldn't you see higher head pressures than normal and 180 is certainly lower than normal for 22. sounds to me you either have low load aka airflow or low refrigerant charge

[TriWorksInc]

I had a Ruud heatpump this summer that I went on a no cooling call to find the indoor expansion valve slammed closed, thought it was a slam dunk diagnosis, but nooo. I put the new expansion valve in, and blam the same freekin problems, same issues presented. After doing major testing and checking. The second expansion valve was bad. Ruud sent me a new one (3rd) and the problem was solved. Crap Happens, I thought only to me!

[PalmettoMaintPro]

I had a Ruud heatpump this summer that I went on a no cooling call to find the indoor expansion valve slammed closed, thought it was a slam dunk diagnosis, but nooo. I put the new expansion valve in, and blam the same freekin problems, same issues presented. After doing major testing and checking. The second expansion valve was bad. Ruud sent me a new one (3rd) and the problem was solved. Crap Happens, I thought only to me!

I saw a bad one in couple of new Rheems , Txv that is . guess it can happen to any brand though , dont wanna rheem bash , worked for a dealer for a year . they make a really solid product . as does Ruud, which are restickered Rheems in a nut shell

[TriWorksInc]

I was just letting him know that there is always a possibility that a new part is bad. Ruud is a solid piece of equipment and they do not make the expansion valves, but they stood behind there equipment warranty and there tech support helped too.

[PalmettoMaintPro]

I was just letting him know that there is always a possibility that a new part is bad. Ruud is a solid piece of equipment and they do not make the expansion valves, but they stood behind there equipment warranty and there tech support helped too.

agreed whole heartedly , Rheem and Ruud are always great as far as warranting thier equipment