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  1. #40
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    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyac1 View Post
    as mentioned already i agree its shutting down on high pressure fault. it can easily be an overcharged system, but also i seen this issue with the 16 seer r410a goodman units. The txv is getting stuck closed and after cycling a few times it will pop open, and start running smooth. just mt 1 cents
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    There are a lot of professional members without (*) AOP status posting on this thread.

    To those who are, please apply for it by following the link in my signature line.
    Anthony, check JP's post quoted here. If you are a pro, get your app in for pro status and get the * for advising in the AOP forums. Thanks.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  2. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
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    2,361
    Quote Originally Posted by phatmass View Post
    ...I've always been wondering if the variable speed air handler they put in was even compatible with the outside unit they matched it with... Is there someplace to check on this? The model #AM7AOC48H41SAA that you list in post 22 does not appear to be a Trane model number. Do you know the brand? The matchup may not be a tested and ARI approved matchup.
    Quote Originally Posted by phatmass View Post
    ....Good news, the service guy just left, and this one "pulled some freon." Maybe not so good.

    He said that he thinks it's a high pressure switch. When he checked the pressure as the unit was running through a cycle he said it got up to 379 psi. He said the switch is set to 400 psi, so he thinks that when the system was running a lot over the last few weeks during the 100 degree days, it might have gotten up to 400 psi and was tripping the switch. He said he took it down to around 325 psi to give it a little more room, so it wouldn't hit that 400 psi limit... This equipment is using R410A as a refrigerant. The tech is apparently thinking that it is R22 based on the numberes he gave you. 400 psig is a normal pressure for R410A and the high pressure cutoff should be about 600 psig or higher.
    The cycling pattern could be caused by either the high pressure or the low pressure switch. The condenser fan is stopping and the pattern is regular. I think that low pressure cycling is much more likely. Since the indoor coil is not a Trane product, it is possible that it is an R22 product that is misapplied. We really could use an picture of the label on the air handler.

    BTW: I question sizing a 5 ton for your house. I suspect it is a ton or two bigger than needed.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatmass View Post
    Sorry for posting the company and price. If the mods want to delete it go ahead. Somebody asked what company it was, so I assumed it was ok.

    Good news, the service guy just left, and this one "pulled some freon."

    He said that he thinks it's a high pressure switch. When he checked the pressure as the unit was running through a cycle he said it got up to 379 psi. He said the switch is set to 400 psi, so he thinks that when the system was running a lot over the last few weeks during the 100 degree days, it might have gotten up to 400 psi and was tripping the switch. He said he took it down to around 325 psi to give it a little more room, so it wouldn't hit that 400 psi limit.

    So, I feel good since a few of you already said this. Thanks for all the feedback! It's awesome to have such a great online community like this.

    I don't like it when techs "think" this or "guess" that.

    I prefer to know this or determine that.

    Any tech that adjusts charge based solely on pressure doesn't need to return to correct his error.

    Time for a phone call to the service manager and ask politely for the best technician that they have as you are tired of this run-around.

    If they cannot determine the root cause of problems, then, perhaps you need to consider that THEY are part of the problem.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    greenville , sc
    Posts
    718
    Quote Originally Posted by phatmass View Post
    Long time lurker, first time poster. Hi!

    I live in Dallas TX, 2200 sq ft house. I just had a completely new outside and inside unit put in my home this spring.

    5 ton Trane XR15 with variable speed Trane air handler.

    Here's my question...

    Sometimes, the outside condenser unit will "start up" several times before it actually stays on. Like, it'll turn on for a few seconds, then turn off for about 10 seconds... turn on again for a few seconds, then turn off for about 10 seconds. Sometimes it does this just a couple times before starting, and other times it'll do it up to maybe 5 or 6 times before starting. Sometimes it doesn't do it at all and starts running the first time.

    Is this normal? I've never had a variable speed air handler so I'm not sure if the outside unit is suppose to be doing that or not...

    I got a 2 year service warranty so I need to know whether to call the AC company back out again (for the third time).

    Thanks!!!
    sounds like it "could " be a controls problem . contactor points, bad coil, low voltages from a numerous amount of problems. probably not very serious ,yet.

    just have them look closely at the unit low-voltage wiring , and thermostat settings.

    if it is a pressures problem you should find another contractor.............

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    2,265
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    There are a lot of professional members without (*) AOP status posting on this thread.

    To those who are, please apply for it by following the link in my signature line.

    Phatmass,

    Please do not post pricing, nor do I think you should be posting the name of your contractor publicly.

    If you cannot get satisfaction out of your current contractor, try looking at the map in my signature. There are a lot of highly qualified HVAC contractors on this forum who can and will fix your problem.
    For those of us who have posted without AOP status I have a question. Are we not allowed to post in this section to give general information?

    If so then I will no longer post here however, I believed it was not a violation of the forum rules.

    If indeed it is a violation perhaps this forum should be closed to all who do not have AOP status so that it would not be possible to post.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    19
    The model #AM7AOC48H41SAA that you list in post 22 does not appear to be a Trane model number. Do you know the brand? The matchup may not be a tested and ARI approved matchup.
    Sorry, I left off the beginning "T" and I think I wrote an O instead of a 0. I just went and checked the air handler and it's:
    Model: TAM7A0C48H41SAA
    Motor H.P.: 3/4
    F.L. Amps: 4.2
    Volts: 200-230
    MFR. Date: 3/2011

    This equipment is using R410A as a refrigerant. The tech is apparently thinking that it is R22 based on the numberes he gave you. 400 psig is a normal pressure for R410A and the high pressure cutoff should be about 600 psig or higher.
    You're right, the label does say 410A. Wow, that sucks. So now my pressure is too low? What should he have done instead, set the high pressure cutoff to 600 instead of 400? What are the negative effects of having the pressure too low?

    Quote Originally Posted by lynn comstock View Post
    We really could use an picture of the label on the air handler.

    BTW: I question sizing a 5 ton for your house. I suspect it is a ton or two bigger than needed.
    Sorry, I made a mistake when I told y'all 5 ton. It's actually a 4 ton, according to the receipt/papers.

    I've attached a pic of the air handler label.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatmass View Post
    ...I've always been wondering if the variable speed air handler they put in was even compatible with the outside unit they matched it with... Is there someplace to check on this?
    AHRICertificate 4TWR5 and TAM7A.pdf Matchup

    4TWR5048-SUB-105.02.pdf OD Unit Info

    TAM7A0C48-SUB-1B.pdf Air Handler Info

    I recommend that you print and save this information with your purchase documentation.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
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    I think that the unit is cycling on LOW pressure. The high pressure switch is not field adjustable.
    • When it is cycling, is the indoor fan operating at full strength?
    • Are the air filters clean?
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    19
    AAAAGGHH!!! It's still doing it. Removing the freon and lowering the pressure didn't fix it.

    I guess the next time I call I'll ask for the service manager. This will be their 5th trip out since they installed it earlier this year.

    Could it have anything to do with the variable speed blower? It seems to only do it at the very beginning or the very end of the cooling cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by lynn comstock View Post
    AHRICertificate 4TWR5 and TAM7A.pdf Matchup

    4TWR5048-SUB-105.02.pdf OD Unit Info

    TAM7A0C48-SUB-1B.pdf Air Handler Info

    I recommend that you print and save this information with your purchase documentation.
    Thank you!!!

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by lynn comstock View Post
    I think that the unit is cycling on LOW pressure. The high pressure switch is not field adjustable.
    • When it is cycling, is the indoor fan operating at full strength?
    • Are the air filters clean?
    The fan inside doesn't stop when the outside unit starts to short cycle. The air keeps blowing out of the vents like normal--but not at full speed, since the short cycling only happens at the beginning or end of the cooling cycle, when I think the fan isn't blowing at full strength.

    Air filter is not perfectly clean, but not overly dirty. The tech told me I only have to change it once a year, and it's only been about 3 months. It's a 20x25x4 filter.

  11. #50
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    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatmass View Post
    The fan inside doesn't stop when the outside unit starts to short cycle. The air keeps blowing out of the vents like normal--but not at full speed, since the short cycling only happens at the beginning or end of the cooling cycle, when I think the fan isn't blowing at full strength.
    Trane has a "program" for the indoor fan motor that makes the fan run at 80% for the first 8 minutes or so in order to maximize the dehumidification. That coupled with a restrictive 4 inch air filter that is even partially dirty may push the system into low pressure cycling. If the refrigerant charge is low, that is even more likely. Cooler outdoor temperatures also increase the likelyhood of low pressure cycling.

    Air filter is not perfectly clean, but not overly dirty. The tech told me I only have to change it once a year LOL , and it's only been about 3 months. It's a 20x25x4 filter.
    Next time it happens, remove the air filter and see if the cycling stops when the airflow picks up.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  12. #51
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcjo tech View Post
    For those of us who have posted without AOP status I have a question. Are we not allowed to post in this section to give general information?
    Under the AOP rules you are not allowed to give advice. As I read down through the thread, I saw a lot of posts by non AOP (*) members

    If so then I will no longer post here however, I believed it was not a violation of the forum rules. Why not just apply for your AOP(*)?

    If indeed it is a violation perhaps this forum should be closed to all who do not have AOP status so that it would not be possible to post. We talked about that, but it cannot be done.
    Comments in red.

    If you have any further questions about AOP membership, you can contact one of the AOP Committee directly via e-mail or PM and we can help you.

  13. #52
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    Sep 2008
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    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatmass View Post
    AAAAGGHH!!! It's still doing it. Removing the freon and lowering the pressure didn't fix it.

    I guess the next time I call I'll ask for the service manager. This will be their 5th trip out since they installed it earlier this year.

    Could it have anything to do with the variable speed blower? It seems to only do it at the very beginning or the very end of the cooling cycle.


    Thank you!!!
    Ask to speak to the service manager and explain the story to him.

    If he isn't willing and able to send his top technician, then you should look at our contractor locator map and see if you can find someone close to you.

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